Latest email from Factory !!!!

mdt-son said:
Assuming TVS has taken possession of the dispatch book of the Norton Motorcycle Company, obtaining the exact figure shouldn't be difficult. Why not go and ask them to have a glimpse in the dispatch book?
TVS seems to have abandoned the 961 anyway, and I can't understand what there is to hide anymore. Anyone visiting the Solihull TVS plant in the near future?

- Knut
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I know someone whose bike he rejected was involved in a write off nearly a year after he returned it to Norton. Problem was the second owner who wrote it off bought it 'brand new'
 
mdt-son said:
Assuming TVS has taken possession of the dispatch book of the Norton Motorcycle Company, obtaining the exact figure shouldn't be difficult. Why not go and ask them to have a glimpse in the dispatch book?
TVS seems to have abandoned the 961 anyway, and I can't understand what there is to hide anymore. Anyone visiting the Solihull TVS plant in the near future?

- Knut
Click to expand...
SG was a crook, a dispatch record would not allow him to cook the books so I doubt it exists now and probably never did.
 
I know of at least 3 bikes that were returned u see the “ sale of goods act “ as they kept breaking down ,cutting out etc , these were all only a matter of months old , so yes we’re they doctored & sold as new agsin , two of them were anniversaries
 
BLIGHTYBRIT/SF said:
I know of at least 3 bikes that were returned u see the “ sale of goods act “ as they kept breaking down ,cutting out etc , these were all only a matter of months old , so yes we’re they doctored & sold as new agsin , two of them were anniversaries
Click to expand...
This happened with some of the SE bikes. How can you have 3 1 of XX bikes??
 
Norton‘s were originally imported into Aus by NF importers and sold through Fraser Motorcycles in Sydney (from 2015). That Relationship broke down in 2016/17 when Brisbane Motorcycles took over as the importer, bringing in new bikes from 2018. They operate two sales locations. I have no sight of how many were imported/sold.

There are generally 2-4 second hand bikes on the market at any one time, some ex demos through Brisbane Motorcycles. Of the 44 members on the Aus 961 FB site, I would say that more than half are owners, a few seem to have two. I know of one owner not on social media that has three.

Difficult to say how many of the 1400 members on the main FB site have 961’s but you would have to assume a goodly number. I suppose that may not include owners of bikes from non English speaking countries. In addition of course are owners who have no interest in social media or online forums - you know, grumpy old blokes like us lot!

I think that there are more out there than you may believe. The conventional wisdom is between 1000-2000 bikes. My guess would be closer to the upper end of that estimate. I emphasise the word guess.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Norton‘s were originally imported into Aus by NF importers and sold through Fraser Motorcycles in Sydney (from 2015). That Relationship broke down in 2016/17 when Brisbane Motorcycles took over as the importer, bringing in new bikes from 2018. They operate two sales locations. I have no sight of how many were imported/sold.

There are generally 2-4 second hand bikes on the market at any one time, some ex demos through Brisbane Motorcycles. Of the 44 members on the Aus 961 FB site, I would say that more than half are owners, a few seem to have two. I know of one owner not on social media that has three.

Difficult to say how many of the 1400 members on the main FB site have 961’s but you would have to assume a goodly number. I suppose that may not include owners of bikes from non English speaking countries. In addition of course are owners who have no interest in social media or online forums - you know, grumpy old blokes like us lot!

I think that there are more out there than you may believe. The conventional wisdom is between 1000-2000 bikes. My guess would be closer to the upper end of that estimate. I emphasise the word guess.
Click to expand...
I agree but even 2000 is not much
 
City Garage said:
This happened with some of the SE bikes. How can you have 3 1 of XX bikes??
Click to expand...
Because they ran out of the numbered plaques. My SE is #10 of 50. At some point, clearly after #10, the bikes were delivered to the USA with missing numbered plaques. When the plaques were again produced, they were sent to the importer, Matt Capri of South Bay Norton, who then sent them to the SE owners to affix to their bikes. The plaques at this point were all marked 1 of 50.
 
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City Garage said:
I agree but even 2000 is not much
Click to expand...
Exactly!

Think about it… 2000 bikes over a TEN year period…!

How much profit do we think was made per bike…?

How much do we think it cost each month / year to operate the business…?

Ot simply does not add up and never did. Norton was bankrupt WAY before it actually went bankrupt IMO.

SG made money through loans, investors, grants, schemes, pensioners… not motorcycle production.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Exactly!

Think about it… 2000 bikes over a TEN year period…!

How much profit do we think was made per bike…?

How much do we think it cost each month / year to operate the business…?

Ot simply does not add up and never did. Norton was bankrupt WAY before it actually went bankrupt IMO.

SG made money through loans, investors, grants, schemes, pensioners… not motorcycle production.
Click to expand...
My advice to all of us 961 owners/ex-owners is don't look too deep at Doninington Norton , you won't like what you see ! Frankly , I am happy the Norton 961 were made at all . I just had mine out the other day , and drivers are slowing down to look at it ! It is a fun and unique bike with great timeless looks / handling . If only Ollie Thiel could have finished the belt final drive kit , there would be zero tedious maintenence !
 
Fast Eddie said:
SG made money through loans, investors, grants, schemes, pensioners… not motorcycle production.
Click to expand...
Absolutely!
The 961 was a loss leader for SG's.
Operating capital, salaries, etc, relied on procuring loads.
Depending on what you think of SG he was:
1. operated this way expecting that at some point he could produce/sell enough product to being turning a profit.
OR
2. intentionally operating a ponzi type scheme, never expecting to pay back investors.

I think (1) is most likely the way he began, but through mismanagement, incompetence, most likely both, he wound up so deep in financial trouble, he had no choice but to turn to (2) to try and sustain operations. Demand for the 961 was never going to turn things around for SG, thus the V4 and 650 became the only long range hope for the company's survival.
 
Sgt80 said:
Because they ran out of the numbered plaques. My SE is #10 of 50. At some point, clearly after #10, the bikes were delivered to the USA with missing numbered plaques. When the plaques were again produced, they were sent to the importer, Matt Capri of South Bay Norton, who then sent them to the SE owners to affix to their bikes. The plaques at this point were all marked 1 of 50.
Click to expand...
I saw this SE at. “ Moto fantasy “ In Oregon. Where you can rent unusual rare bikes , this was $250 a day ,,had low miles on , no transmission vent & NO plague on it at all
7C935A86-D198-466D-8AF6-C37D1C16FEBD.jpeg
 
If you base 961 production numbers on engine numbers as a guesstimate, it'll be around the 1800 mark (or, under 1900 to be conservative)...if you take into consideration warranty replacements, units used for testing, etc etc
 
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Voodooo said:
I’m serious.
About 18 months ago I got off of Facebook because it’s full of drama. (On some of the groups).

I don’t provide any of my personal information on Facebook and keep my profile minimum. Meaning, I don’t provide pictures of myself or family and I don’t disclose my real name.

But when joining the Norton 961 page, they ask you a few questions before reviewing you and allowing you to become a member.

Questions such as…
How many CC’s are a 961?
How many cylinders are the 961?
Pretty basic questions.

So after allowing me to join, I started a Poll asking what bikes 961 owners would like to see TVS offer.
Most everyone wanted spare parts from TVS. Most everyone wanted a 961 Commando model.
Many wanted the Atlas bikes to be offered by TVS.

Well then I asked how much a buyer would be willing to pay. That’s when I became accused of being a troll and asked what bikes I own and do I even own a 961. For my Facebook profile picture I had a picture of my Domi.

When I started getting accused more and more by members of being a fraud and troll and some even private messaging me, I provided more pictures of my 961’s in my garage, of my vin tag numbers etc.
Some believed I was legit, but it didn’t convince all and it didn’t convince the admin and he banned me.

Oh well! FB sucks and it’s a reminder why I got off it in the first place.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I didnt like seeing this chap. I do honestly think the last comment about you being a troll was tongue in cheek British sarcastic humour though. It's generally a chilled out page, with the only few stiring it up being none 961 owners. Sorry to see you removed anyhow, but should you want to go for third time lucky with FB, let me know and I'll accept your member request.
The questions on there I set up, to try and whittle out the tshirt sales from foreign lands.
 
9 year production run with a constant 2 bikes per week including holidays, which I doubt, would be the lower end of the estimate. When the importer for the USA was also the exporter from the UK, then best of luck with numbers for the US market. Export records where they exist would be questionable.

What is amazing is that this is not that historic - someone who worked there must have a better idea.
 
Madnorton said:
9 year production run with a constant 2 bikes per week including holidays, which I doubt, would be the lower end of the estimate. When the importer for the USA was also the exporter from the UK, then best of luck with numbers for the US market. Export records where they exist would be questionable.

What is amazing is that this is not that historic - someone who worked there must have a better idea.
Click to expand...
Hence my guesstimate
 
Stu Bodycote said:
Yeah, I didnt like seeing this chap. I do honestly think the last comment about you being a troll was tongue in cheek British sarcastic humour though. It's generally a chilled out page, with the only few stiring it up being none 961 owners. Sorry to see you removed anyhow, but should you want to go for third time lucky with FB, let me know and I'll accept your member request.
The questions on there I set up, to try and whittle out the tshirt sales from foreign lands.
Click to expand...
You’re the admin on the FB 961 page?


I was accused of being a troll multiple times by a few members.

Thanks but I’ll pass.
Facebook is full of A-holes. I get sarcasm. But it was the private messages and being called a liar and myself feeling like I needed to defend myself as to being a 961 owner.

Even when I proven I was in fact a 961 owner, I was still getting the bs treatment. Thanks for your offer though.
 
Voodooo said:
You’re the admin on the FB 961 page?


I was accused of being a troll multiple times by a few members.

Thanks but I’ll pass.
Facebook is full of A-holes. I get sarcasm. But it was the private messages and being called a liar and myself feeling like I needed to defend myself as to being a 961 owner.

Even when I proven I was in fact a 961 owner, I was still getting the bs treatment. Thanks for your offer though.
Click to expand...
One of, dont do a lot of admin work though, and I certainly didnt remove you (got enough on my plate at present without having to babysit a FB page).... only people Ive ever removed has been moody tshirt sales
 

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