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If you have a spare one, it looks changeable at the roadside.
K2F Uneven Spark on 650SS
- Thread starter TBolt
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Hi guys, just a brief background, I do not work for brightspark magnetos, but after deeply looking into their product, I started using them on rebuilds. I am not their only wholesale customer in the USA, but I do sell more of their Easycaps than anyone in the world.
Brightspark Magnetos have done extensive accelerated testing that they can send you directly by asking them from their website. I can tell you that they have sold over 2,000 units & no in-use failures yet. There was one customer who damaged his during installation, but it was replaced, for free, no questions asked.
It really isnt so much of a new fangled electronic replacement, such as the nice units BTH has now ( 595 GBP) , but it is really using the original technology, but with better materials. And because the new caps ( 13-16 GBP) are so much smaller due to modern materials, the cap can be installed in a smaller space, hence , can be relocated for easier access. I had one customer whose K2F I rebuilt with the Brightspark Easycap that asked for a spare to carry in his tool roll just in case. That is now a possibility, that didnt exist in the past, and does not exist on the new electronic magneto replacements. In other words, for the first time , the average brit bike owner can replace his capacitor on the road if he had to.
How long will the easycaps last? I guess time will tell, I am not aware of one that has been replaced yet. But to be sure, they will fail, as capacitors all will eventually, and you won't need to send the mag off, or even remove the mag from the bike to replace the cap.
As to the "expert" who has condemned them, the person I know of that as bad mouthed these Easycaps has to date, never seen one in person, or tested one. Not a very scientific approach.
It's good to question new things, new isnt always better, but how much proof does one need? I would strongly recommend to anyone with questions on these Easycaps to visit the website, give it a read, post questions on the "contact us" link on the website. See the comments from customers section, or talk to someone who has installed one. There are several members of this forum that I have sold Easycaps to.
Brightspark Magnetos have done extensive accelerated testing that they can send you directly by asking them from their website. I can tell you that they have sold over 2,000 units & no in-use failures yet. There was one customer who damaged his during installation, but it was replaced, for free, no questions asked.
It really isnt so much of a new fangled electronic replacement, such as the nice units BTH has now ( 595 GBP) , but it is really using the original technology, but with better materials. And because the new caps ( 13-16 GBP) are so much smaller due to modern materials, the cap can be installed in a smaller space, hence , can be relocated for easier access. I had one customer whose K2F I rebuilt with the Brightspark Easycap that asked for a spare to carry in his tool roll just in case. That is now a possibility, that didnt exist in the past, and does not exist on the new electronic magneto replacements. In other words, for the first time , the average brit bike owner can replace his capacitor on the road if he had to.
How long will the easycaps last? I guess time will tell, I am not aware of one that has been replaced yet. But to be sure, they will fail, as capacitors all will eventually, and you won't need to send the mag off, or even remove the mag from the bike to replace the cap.
As to the "expert" who has condemned them, the person I know of that as bad mouthed these Easycaps has to date, never seen one in person, or tested one. Not a very scientific approach.
It's good to question new things, new isnt always better, but how much proof does one need? I would strongly recommend to anyone with questions on these Easycaps to visit the website, give it a read, post questions on the "contact us" link on the website. See the comments from customers section, or talk to someone who has installed one. There are several members of this forum that I have sold Easycaps to.
Triton Thrasher said:
You could also add the basic design of the moving coil with the necessary slip ring, brushes, and other complexities inherent in this design. Why not move the magnet, and then have stationary coils? It's much easier and reliable to connect something electrically that isn't moving. Furthermore, with a circular magnet like a Lucas, you have problems with losing magnetism when the armature is removed.
The company I work for builds aircraft components, including magnetos. I have yet to see an aircraft magneto that uses the moving coil design of a Lucas magneto. All of them use a stationary coil and moving magnet.
I'll put it to you that in most cases shimming the housing makes the bearing more square to the armature axis.The fact that it was out of square is often what's caused the problem.Rohan said:
Every time you replace one of those paper insulators,the bearing ends up in a different position.That's why people resorted to stoning every time they got their bearings or insulators replaced.
You can easily tell if the face on the main body is out of square.Bolt the cam housing on 180 degrees out of position and see if the error follows the cam housing.It should if the face on the main body is square.It is more difficult to establish if the bearings are actually square to the armature axis.If you haven't actually checked that,you can hardly say if a shim on one side is making it better or worse.I doubt that anyone has ever checked it.
A shim on one side is still the lesser of 2 evils,even if the bearing in the cam housing is slightly off square to the armature axis.There's very little load on that bearing.It's main purpose is to stop the points moving about,by keeping the armature steady.
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L.A.kevin said:
It was a sensible design in 1902, when the magnet was a large horseshoe shape and rpm was low.
Lucas made rotating magnet twin cylinder magnetos in the 1950s, but in the road bike world they were associated with hard starting on Enfield twins.
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It is true that Lucas made both rotating magnet & rotating armature magnetos. Both have their advantages. The rotating magnet type like the SR1 & SR2 worked well, were easy to repair, the capacitor wasnt buried. It was used on a few bikes & on agricultural equiptment & looks very much like the Joe Hunt magnetos offered today, but they were big & bulky. The rotating armature magnetos (made my many companys, not just Lucas) had their good points, one of them being a much more compact design. Two different animals.
Paper flowers (or insulating gaskets), if installed correctly (heating the case first) and the correct thickness used (they come in different thicknesses), the bearing race will be exactly where it should be. If the old gasket was disintegrated, or originally installed incorrectly, than it was wrong to begin with. Some of the gaskets sold today are way too thick, and most people dont warm the case first & consequently end up shearing off 1/3 of the tabs not only causing an offset in the bearing, thus causing misallignment & many other issues.
I am sure Lucas made some bad ring cams, I just havent found a single one yet, but have seen a lot of mis-assembled armatures causing shaft wobble.
Paper flowers (or insulating gaskets), if installed correctly (heating the case first) and the correct thickness used (they come in different thicknesses), the bearing race will be exactly where it should be. If the old gasket was disintegrated, or originally installed incorrectly, than it was wrong to begin with. Some of the gaskets sold today are way too thick, and most people dont warm the case first & consequently end up shearing off 1/3 of the tabs not only causing an offset in the bearing, thus causing misallignment & many other issues.
I am sure Lucas made some bad ring cams, I just havent found a single one yet, but have seen a lot of mis-assembled armatures causing shaft wobble.
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How does a wobbling shaft cause uneven spark?
If the shaft wobbles enough, the points (follower) can't even find the cam !!
Depending on precisely how/where its bent.
And since the bend is only to one side (hopefully !), this will likely favour one side and disadvantage the other ( for a twin cylinder maggie).
A single cylinder maggie may or may not be disadvantaged .
Depending on precisely how/where its bent.
And since the bend is only to one side (hopefully !), this will likely favour one side and disadvantage the other ( for a twin cylinder maggie).
A single cylinder maggie may or may not be disadvantaged .
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Rohan said:
If that's your level of understanding of the problem of timing difference in twin mags, you should think and read more and type less.
A bend in a rotating component (armature and points) is to every side, in turn, of the stationary component (cam ring) surrounding it!
Not if the bent shaft has worn the bearings in an odd fashion.... ?
And the bend is at the drive end.
I suspect I've met more seriously worn maggies than some ?.
My old dommie I bought at school had a K2F that had about every ailment under the sun,
and putting that even half right involved the best from a few others...
Finding info on them back then, before the net, was near impossible.
And the manual on them was somewhat, err, brief, shall we say.
Which is why they are STILL being discussed here like this !!?
And the bend is at the drive end.
I suspect I've met more seriously worn maggies than some ?.
My old dommie I bought at school had a K2F that had about every ailment under the sun,
and putting that even half right involved the best from a few others...
Finding info on them back then, before the net, was near impossible.
And the manual on them was somewhat, err, brief, shall we say.
Which is why they are STILL being discussed here like this !!?
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Rohan said:
If the centre of rotation is in the wrong place, or if it won't stay in one place, you can get the OP's symptoms.
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Bernhard said:
That is very true! BT&H mags did a lot of aircraft mags, so for them to make motorcycle mags, they tended to use aircraft mag ideas in the manufacturing, where Lucas was in the auto industry & to make a motorcycle mag, they used more automotive background. This is why most prefer the BT&H magnetos over the Lucas. And as was stated, Lucas made product that was to a price, or more to the point, made a product as per spec from the customer. Lucas could have made some awesome improvements, but the industry at the time didnt want to pay, sadly.
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skipsoldbikes said:
If you want to impress us with your knowledge, get the name right.
Do you mean BT-H: British Thomson-Houston?
I must say, their version of the original Bosch magneto layout looks pretty similar to a Lucas.
And BT-H magnetos can't have been much dearer, or they'd never have appeared on Triumphs.
Rohan said:
Re; “We did previously ask for more explanation of this method though, initially it was very vaguely worded”
You hadn’t quoted that this was vaguely worded to me before.
Is this an admission by you Rohan that when I first posted this method you were unfamiliar with the Quarter shim method of correcting the K2F magnetos :?:
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Triton Thrasher said:
The original full name of BTH was in fact: British Thomson-Houston, although nearly no one calls them that, & in print in nearly every parts book I own it is shortened to BTH, and I guess if one wants to get technical, the company name was sold & its new owners call themselves "BTH Components LTD." and also hold all rights & logos . Speaking of logos, if you look at the BTH logo (or BT-H if you choose) you will see a circle with 3 "curls" on its inside. Look familiar? Thats because BTH was a subsidiary of the American company GE (General Electric).
As to cost..... yes, there was a substantial cost difference with the BTH mag being more costly. On most brands that used them, they were only offered on more expensive, or on competition models. I know nothing of Triumphs, so I dont know their story . Who knows, it wasnt unusual for a bike manufacturer to be in arrears to a parts vendor & have to go to another vendor for parts, even at a higher cost. Even now a BTH mag costs more to rebuild, look inside & you will see why. I gave Brightspark magnetos a BTH parts breakdown to publish on their website that you can look at, or download for free if you like & compare. You will see what I mean
