Internal Sump Blockage
- Thread starter Dirt2Oil
- Start date
- Status
in reality they ARE interconnected as he will have to split the crankcase and fix the lack of an oil pickup. as I and dave have stated the INOA/oldbritts mod is a butcher job that does not need to be done. also as jim comstoc has PROVEN the best place to vent the crankcase is at the source IE keep the 72-73 breather in its location so another reason NOT to butcher out the weir.
pete.v said:
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2012
- Messages
- 46
Thanks to everyone for all the useful information. I really didn't want to split the cases but I will continue deeper into this engine it appears. My fear has been have lots of parts scattered around the garage that is never put back together. For once I may be thankful for the long cold winter months of northern Alberta. Hopefully I will be able to have everything back together for our spring........ in JULY. :mrgreen:
I will update my progress here as I continue.
I will update my progress here as I continue.
Thanks Bill.
I suppose the small diameter pick up holes would aid in filtering any larger trash/debris in the oil?
This thread has helped me learn a lot about the oiling system and the improvements that came about with the large mesh sump filter on later (and earlier) Norton models.
Would disconnecting the oil return line on the back oil tank and putting some air pressure on it
give any useful information about any restriction on the scavenge side?
On my bike I removed the grub screw on the drilled passage at the front of the timing side crankcase and was able to temporarily clear an apparent original forward pick up blockage.
I suppose the small diameter pick up holes would aid in filtering any larger trash/debris in the oil?
This thread has helped me learn a lot about the oiling system and the improvements that came about with the large mesh sump filter on later (and earlier) Norton models.
Would disconnecting the oil return line on the back oil tank and putting some air pressure on it
give any useful information about any restriction on the scavenge side?
On my bike I removed the grub screw on the drilled passage at the front of the timing side crankcase and was able to temporarily clear an apparent original forward pick up blockage.
Some more very useful information.. Whilst you have the cases split..
crankcase-mods-advice-please-t18230.html?hilit=plug%20cases
discussion-crankcase-modifications-for-oiling-t10063.html?hilit=plenty%20of%20crankcase%20mods#p112397
crankcase-mods-advice-please-t18230.html?hilit=plug%20cases
discussion-crankcase-modifications-for-oiling-t10063.html?hilit=plenty%20of%20crankcase%20mods#p112397
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 18,978
The worry to me about just drilling small holes in case bottoms to act as a parts screen is worry the smaller stuff that pump can easy process might pile up collect in the tiny holes. I'm thinking of a 'big' proud screen area by stuffing some in the hollowed out DS pit and fixing it there somehow by tying to the back side of the DS vertical lip. I'd trust JBW in this application besides whats a bit of loose thin steel screen compared to chunk of tough washer or broken piston the engine don't run long enough to chew on much.
- Joined
- May 28, 2003
- Messages
- 2,591
If doing a combat case mod in Bill's or my style remember one thing...
when drilling any pick up holes ... keep them as low in the case as possible.
The highest hole will be the LOWEST the oil will be drained to, cause once it is exposed to air the oil level will NOT go any lower.
You can see in my pix that they are all aimed very low.
when drilling any pick up holes ... keep them as low in the case as possible.
The highest hole will be the LOWEST the oil will be drained to, cause once it is exposed to air the oil level will NOT go any lower.
You can see in my pix that they are all aimed very low.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 18,978
A new drain after plugging the front is pretty much limited to the best lowest rear place when tapping into the TS meat to gain access to oil passage into sucking side of pump. Once cases apart good idea to lower the TS cam case resting oil level by a lower vent hole into crank side. I'll test oil forced through Trixie front factory hole now I'm alerted. I dread wedging apart another crank case seam so taking time to make a simple case spliter so its simpleton wrenching task not a frustrated arist with chisels and screw drivers.
I think a flat pipe screen JBW over a shallow around the drain would not clog up and pass enough hot oil in a hurry.
I think a flat pipe screen JBW over a shallow around the drain would not clog up and pass enough hot oil in a hurry.
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2012
- Messages
- 46
79x100 said:
I have copied the above quote from another thread "Splitting cases on a Norton"
Just wondering if the experienced folks on here can tell me if I will need this particular tool.
I have the clutch spring compressor and clutch locking tool on hand and waiting for the engine sprocket puller to arrive. I am wondering if I can split the cases without removing all the hardwear on the TS and thus not require the special three-jawed puller for the mainshaft pinion?
I just want to get the drive side off to drill the required hole and leave as much undisturbed as possible.
Is it unwise to try and split the cases with everything intact on the TS? Or should I order the special three-jawed puller?
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 18,978
In a prefect world getting Norton cases apart is pretty easy, sometimes just a rubber hammer bonking breaks em free of sealant to just about fall apart, other cases may need razors and chisels to break sealant and a few others, ugh, further banging in of wedges and pry bars **w/o** marring the surfaces. In best case above its still a bit of a fumble to hold or mount cases and control loose crank etc, so my puller is just plate with 3 holes for 3 bolts to screw in the cover mount threads then 3 nuts to ease it down on crank till case lips part and bearings cleared.
I finally ended up doing the re-located oil pump pick-up hole in the (230615) timing side case this way:
The red wire represents the oil level with the new hole, the original hole is lower and was quite close to the crankshaft.
I will plug the original hole.
The new hole is further from the rotating crankshaft and back in the rear breather baffle area.
Maybe less effect on the oil from the rotating crank?
The red marked hole on the center right is the new hole drilled from near the bottom oil pump stud.
Intent is to reduce the oil level in the timing side.
Do I need to plug the original timing side drain back hole seen in the channel leading to the breather baffle area?
The red wire represents the oil level with the new hole, the original hole is lower and was quite close to the crankshaft.
I will plug the original hole.
The new hole is further from the rotating crankshaft and back in the rear breather baffle area.
Maybe less effect on the oil from the rotating crank?
The red marked hole on the center right is the new hole drilled from near the bottom oil pump stud.
Intent is to reduce the oil level in the timing side.
Do I need to plug the original timing side drain back hole seen in the channel leading to the breather baffle area?
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 18,978
Should [JBW, Al peg, screw or weld] block the front original sump hole for less air drawn into pump that may cause some gear mess cavitation inefficiency to keep sump empty as possible. I'm bit bullet on Trixie and removed cam drive to make new drain as I think what ever stuck in original passage has now collected enough stuff from rings grit wear to clog up to matter. I'm stuck again on parting cases after the normal whack hard with wood drift only scared me of breaking something - and can't face the razor blades and knives method anymore. So next step is fix another flat on SuVee race rear then toddle to machine shop to collect a 6"ish scrap plate to make a case crank pusher parter to ease my hammer head mind and spine.
Every distraction of m/c mechanics, home and car recovery means that much less fire wood for more propane winter expense as no longer work on non emergencies below 50'F.
Every distraction of m/c mechanics, home and car recovery means that much less fire wood for more propane winter expense as no longer work on non emergencies below 50'F.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5,421
Have my Mk11 cases in front of me thinking about drilling the same hole so all advice good on how to proceed. Hobot ya wimp it hit - 30 C. here for 14 days last winter coldest on record for 70 years so many suffered. Ice storm too. :|
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2012
- Messages
- 46
Well I finally did it. The cases are apart and there is a little circle of sealant on the primary side showing me exactly where to drill the new hole. 
Next thing I guess is to get everything off the timing side and plug the holes and drill the new one indicated above.
Next thing I guess is to get everything off the timing side and plug the holes and drill the new one indicated above.
hate to be the bearer of bad news again but you should also look at getting rid of those early main bearings. as they say " more money more money" this thing is looking more like it was built with what ever left overs was available.
Dirt2Oil said:Well I finally did it. The cases are apart and there is a little circle of sealant on the primary side showing me exactly where to drill the new hole.
Next thing I guess is to get everything off the timing side and plug the holes and drill the new one indicated above.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2009
- Messages
- 5,421
Yessireebob ,crazy combat came with those same bearings too ,so plan on $uperblends for this project. NJ306E if I recall ? So... if you're going to change out the 2 bearings yes you will need that 3 jaw puller. On using it make sure the 3 grabbing lips are tightened home well behind the gear , The concern is the tool can slip off and the 3 jaw ends can get rounded or lose sharpness if this occurs. The bearings can be dropped out in the oven when the wife is not about and the new frozen ones drop in. Getting the old ones off the crank ends can be a tight job ,maybe you can borrow the proper main bearing puller for that ?:|
- Status
Similar threads
