Inlet upgrade?

Al's#5 · Apr 22, 2021

Vernon240 said:
Gotcha! Making sense! Yep, we have places around here that will only deal with certain ECU's meaning we might have to look country wide. Some times that might be a really long trip...well, a few hrs at least! Us islanders have a different perspective on distance!

I'll find out what SCS's rolling road capabilities are!

Just back from the first run out after modifying the exhaust, feels a bit lumpy under 2000rpm but starting, warmup and tickover ok. Disappointed they don't sound like I remember reverse cones but nicer anyway. I've been talking to BSDand they have confirmed that they can supply a Dynojet box but advise rolling road set up! I'll stick with plug checking for now.

TonyA · Apr 22, 2021

Vernon240 said:
Gotcha! Making sense! Yep, we have places around here that will only deal with certain ECU's meaning we might have to look country wide. Some times that might be a really long trip...well, a few hrs at least! Us islanders have a different perspective on distance!

I'll find out what SCS's rolling road capabilities are!

Even if SCS can't or won't do it , they will know shops that will ! You will need :
(2) K&N RC 2770 filters - 2 in ID flange
(2) Silicone 30deg elbows - 2 in ID (trim to desired length)
(2) Intake stubs 2 in OD to mount the filters to the silicone hose runners.
(4) Hose clamps ~ 2.5 in clamping range.
(2) Vent filters - 3/8 in ID flange , 1 for IAM and 1 for the crankcase vent
(x) Ty raps to secure your Air box air temp sensor and other loose ends

Clive · Apr 23, 2021

TonyA said:
Even if SCS can't or won't do it , they will know shops that will ! You will need :
(2) K&N RC 2770 filters - 2 in ID flange
(2) Silicone 30deg elbows - 2 in ID (trim to desired length)
(2) Intake stubs 2 in OD to mount the filters to the silicone hose runners.
(4) Hose clamps ~ 2.5 in clamping range.
(2) Vent filters - 3/8 in ID flange , 1 for IAM and 1 for the crankcase vent
(x) Ty raps to secure your Air box air temp sensor and other loose ends

Plus an oil catch/ separator of some type. Thinking of making a wide flat one above rectifier angled back in frame to also stop wheel mud. And take the opportunity to de-rust the swingarm under the hugger. Am thinking about a little aluminium deflector sandwiched under the hugger which bends down and protects the swingarm but mustn't create a water trap. maybe spacers on swingarm, alu deflector then hugger. Project so far;

Gives the bike a sort of Domi/Commando look. Comminator??? Quick register the name!

Fast Eddie · Apr 23, 2021

Clive said:
Gives the bike a sort of Domi/Commando look. Comminator??? Quick register the name!

ComDom

cliffa · Apr 23, 2021

Jubilee ?

Clive · Apr 23, 2021

cliffa said:
Jubilee ?

Considering any performance gains I might get are obliterated by several kilos of Jubilee clips that could be appropriate!

cliffa · Apr 23, 2021

I took one look at that picture and the name just popped into my head

By the way have you noticed that one of your reg/rec allen screws is loose by the looks of it?

Clive · Apr 23, 2021

cliffa said:
I took one look at that picture and the name just popped into my head

By the way have you noticed that one of your reg/rec allen screws is loose by the looks of it?

Wow well done spotting that!

You probably have good eyesight from all that watchmaking and clear mountain air!
I have never removed it so it might be a good opportunity to check the heat sink compound...

cliffa · Apr 23, 2021

Glad to be of service

TonyA · Apr 23, 2021

Clive said:
Plus an oil catch/ separator of some type. Thinking of making a wide flat one above rectifier angled back in frame to also stop wheel mud. And take the opportunity to de-rust the swingarm under the hugger. Am thinking about a little aluminium deflector sandwiched under the hugger which bends down and protects the swingarm but mustn't create a water trap. maybe spacers on swingarm, alu deflector then hugger. Project so far;

View attachment 79370
Gives the bike a sort of Domi/Commando look. Comminator??? Quick register the name!

Hi Clive , Looking Good ,. What's going on with the IAM and Crank breather vents ? Is that a shared vent manifold you have there ? I don't think the rec/reg bolt is loose , just the angle of the photo showing the bolt threads ? Some bikes may not need the oil catch tank , and can get away with something much smaller ? If you have oil in the air box before the mod , you will have it after . So Yes , think about a oil catch location and if possible utilize the factory drip bottle ?

TonyA · Apr 23, 2021

Clive said:
Considering any performance gains I might get are obliterated by several kilos of Jubilee clips that could be appropriate!

Clive , There will be gains !

TonyA · Apr 23, 2021

Clive said:
Plus an oil catch/ separator of some type. Thinking of making a wide flat one above rectifier angled back in frame to also stop wheel mud. And take the opportunity to de-rust the swingarm under the hugger. Am thinking about a little aluminium deflector sandwiched under the hugger which bends down and protects the swingarm but mustn't create a water trap. maybe spacers on swingarm, alu deflector then hugger. Project so far;

View attachment 79370
Gives the bike a sort of Domi/Commando look. Comminator??? Quick register the name!

Clive , Why not use the factory air/oil separator too ? Might help return some of the primary discharge ? That what I did. It will do better that just a straight piece of hose , and it adds very little restriction . What did you do with the air box temp sensor ? You saw my little rig ?

Clive · Apr 26, 2021

Okay - seems to go ok with quite a bit more inlet noise - or rather some inlet noise now. Difficult to gauge performance as different sound detracts but seems similar up to 4-5k when it does seem to pull quite strongly. I made a plate to sit above the intakes under the frame below the seat to keep some dirt/water out and made a little cover for the temp sensor with hex brass drilled through and turned down to leave a hex end to tighten and tapped to M10x1.25 which secures the sensor to the underside of the plate on a small L bracket. Will make an alu soon. Only problem is, yes Tony, some oil vapour coming out of the catch can vent. Shows how much oily vapour is going back into the inlet normally. I've seen some separators at aircraft jumbles so it's Google time. I will try the factory one in line but it does look a bit pants....

BritTwit · Apr 27, 2021

Clive said:
Plus an oil catch/ separator of some type. Thinking of making a wide flat one above rectifier angled back in frame to also stop wheel mud. And take the opportunity to de-rust the swingarm under the hugger. Am thinking about a little aluminium deflector sandwiched under the hugger which bends down and protects the swingarm but mustn't create a water trap. maybe spacers on swingarm, alu deflector then hugger. Project so far;

View attachment 79370
Gives the bike a sort of Domi/Commando look. Comminator??? Quick register the name!

Red capped vent filters are a nice touch.

BritTwit · Apr 27, 2021

Clive said:
Okay - seems to go ok with quite a bit more inlet noise - or rather some inlet noise now. Difficult to gauge performance as different sound detracts but seems similar up to 4-5k when it does seem to pull quite strongly. I made a plate to sit above the intakes under the frame below the seat to keep some dirt/water out and made a little cover for the temp sensor with hex brass drilled through and turned down to leave a hex end to tighten and tapped to M10x1.25 which secures the sensor to the underside of the plate on a small L bracket. Will make an alu soon. Only problem is, yes Tony, some oil vapour coming out of the catch can vent. Shows how much oily vapour is going back into the inlet normally. I've seen some separators at aircraft jumbles so it's Google time. I will try the factory one in line but it does look a bit pants....

View attachment 79443 View attachment 79444

Wow, already looks a second quicker in the 1/4 mile!

Now, someone has to come up with faux airbox left and right side covers.
Maybe with shark gills.

iwilson · Apr 27, 2021

Clive said:
Okay - seems to go ok with quite a bit more inlet noise - or rather some inlet noise now. Difficult to gauge performance as different sound detracts but seems similar up to 4-5k when it does seem to pull quite strongly. I made a plate to sit above the intakes under the frame below the seat to keep some dirt/water out and made a little cover for the temp sensor with hex brass drilled through and turned down to leave a hex end to tighten and tapped to M10x1.25 which secures the sensor to the underside of the plate on a small L bracket. Will make an alu soon. Only problem is, yes Tony, some oil vapour coming out of the catch can vent. Shows how much oily vapour is going back into the inlet normally. I've seen some separators at aircraft jumbles so it's Google time. I will try the factory one in line but it does look a bit pants....

View attachment 79443 View attachment 79444

Clive, so are you venting directly from the crankcase breather? If so I'm not surprised. What I did was route the crankcase breather back into the rocker cover (my bike can with the banjo bolts in the rocker cover). I then ran a breather from the other side of the rocker cover to my little oil separator which mostly catches moisture with a tiny bit of oil. There's generally far to much oil coming out of the crankcase vent to easily deal with. Hence Norton having to use the big air oil separator to get most of it but a lot of bikes still end up with oily airboxes and throttle bodies.

Here's another experiment I did a few years back to see what was going on....

MAK · Apr 28, 2021

iwilson said:
Clive, so are you venting directly from the crankcase breather? If so I'm not surprised. What I did was route the crankcase breather back into the rocker cover (my bike can with the banjo bolts in the rocker cover). I then ran a breather from the other side of the rocker cover to my little oil separator which mostly catches moisture with a tiny bit of oil. There's generally far to much oil coming out of the crankcase vent to easily deal with. Hence Norton having to use the big air oil separator to get most of it but a lot of bikes still end up with oily airboxes and throttle bodies.

Here's another experiment I did a few years back to see what was going on....

Not familiar with the inside of the crankcase or how much space there is,
But some big old gearboxes that I repaired mainly automatic had a deflector plate in front of the vent whole.
This allowed the hot mist out through a pipe and filter but the oil fell back into the case having no direct access to the outside world.

Fast Eddie · Apr 28, 2021

iwilson said:
Clive, so are you venting directly from the crankcase breather? If so I'm not surprised. What I did was route the crankcase breather back into the rocker cover (my bike can with the banjo bolts in the rocker cover). I then ran a breather from the other side of the rocker cover to my little oil separator which mostly catches moisture with a tiny bit of oil. There's generally far to much oil coming out of the crankcase vent to easily deal with. Hence Norton having to use the big air oil separator to get most of it but a lot of bikes still end up with oily airboxes and throttle bodies.

Here's another experiment I did a few years back to see what was going on....

Venting the crankcase to the rocker box and then venting the rockerbox to atmosphere surely has to be the sensible plumbing option on these motors?

Doing that is effectively using the rocker box as an oil separator.

I can’t imagine there’s that much oil thrashing around in the rocker box to allow much oil egress via the breather pipe ?

cliffa · Apr 28, 2021

iwilson said:
Clive, so are you venting directly from the crankcase breather? If so I'm not surprised. What I did was route the crankcase breather back into the rocker cover (my bike can with the banjo bolts in the rocker cover). I then ran a breather from the other side of the rocker cover to my little oil separator which mostly catches moisture with a tiny bit of oil. There's generally far to much oil coming out of the crankcase vent to easily deal with. Hence Norton having to use the big air oil separator to get most of it but a lot of bikes still end up with oily airboxes and throttle bodies.

Here's another experiment I did a few years back to see what was going on....

Thanks for sharing another one of your very informative videos. That is a stark visualization of the problem and it's easy to see how oil gets into the airbox when even at tickover it had already got up to that height. Presumably there is no baffle within the crankcase and splashed oil is being pushed up the pipe by the exiting crankcase compression, so it makes absolute sense to route it to the rocker cover first and use that as the separator then use the other banjo as the vent rather than the ugly plastic thing Norton came up with.

Al's#5 · Apr 28, 2021

Really am tempted to continue with the LET IT BREATH mods by adding another intake to the airbox and removing the cat but, just back from a spin and it's running great. Shortened exhaust now burbles on coming down the box and it's pulling fine right through the rev range, as high as I need it anyway. Pondering the airbox, it has a 62mm opening which should be adequate, restricted under the seat yes but plenty of gaps enough to cope, at least for my requirements.

Inlet upgrade?

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