I'm a newbie wishing to know what I have. (2013)

joel1 · Sep 5, 2016

The coil wiring.

The points have been gaped at .012. The pics don't show it but when I set the gap at .012 I turned the rear wheel backwards slightly to achieve 28 degrees on the crankshaft. Once 28 degrees was achieved I set the gap on the yellow black side. The pic depicts the driver side piston at top dead center.

Top dead center. Intake valve is open. One more pic to come. It will show that the above pic being top dead center that the timing mark on the cran shaft is at 18 degrees.

I do not have any of the control levers wired yet. Not sure if that will cause an issue.

L.A.B. · Sep 5, 2016

joel1 said:
I have the harness wired to what I think is correct. However still no spark.

Do you have 12V at the [Edit] ballast resistor WU (white/blue) wire and 'voltage' at the (WY) coil connections?

joel1 said:
The points have been gaped at .012. The pics don't show it but when I set the gap at .012 I turned the rear wheel backwards slightly to achieve 28 degrees on the crankshaft. Once 28 degrees was achieved I set the gap on the yellow black side.

I don't understand what you are doing. The heel of each points set should be lined up with the scribed line on the points cam first to set the points gaps. This is a separate operation to ignition timing.

joel1 said:
Once 28 degrees was achieved I set the gap on the yellow black side.

If what you mean is you set the opening point of the BY drive side points at 28 degrees BTDC then it will be wrong unless you locked points cam at the fully advanced position first.

joel1 said:
The pic depicts the driver side piston at top dead center.

Top dead center. Intake valve is open.

Again, not sure what you are doing? If you are attempting to set the ignition timing on the drive side cylinder then the valves should be closed?

joel1 said:
It will show that the above pic being top dead center that the timing mark on the cran shaft is at 18 degrees.

I'm not sure what's lined up at 18 deg. is the actual timing mark.

joel1 said:
I do not have any of the control levers wired yet. Not sure if that will cause an issue.

If you mean the switch clusters, then yes, it will if the kill switch hasn't been connected.

joel1 · Sep 5, 2016

I have not wired the kill switch. What colors will the kill switch wiring be? Also the kill switch is the bottom button on right hand control under the turn signal switch correct?

L.A.B. · Sep 5, 2016

joel1 said:
I have not wired the kill switch. What colors will the kill switch wiring be?

White 'in', white/yellow WY 'out' to the under tank junction where it connects to white/blue [WU] as marked on the wiring diagram.

joel1 said:
Also the kill switch is the bottom button on right hand control under the turn signal switch correct?

Originally, the kill switch was on the upper left cluster, however, due to owner preference the two switch clusters were often swapped over and the factory supplied them that way from mid-1972 so the kill switch can be 'lower right' or 'upper left' whichever you prefer.

joel1 · Sep 5, 2016

L.A.B. said:
joel1 said:

I have not wired the kill switch. What colors will the kill switch wiring be?

Click to expand...

White 'in', white/yellow WY 'out' to the under tank junction where it connects to white/blue [WU] as marked on the wiring diagram.

I used an ohm meter to test the kill switch. The kill switch has "reliable" continuity (Its good).

I successfully connected the white/yellow wire from the kill switch to the white/blue wire on the main harness.

However I don't know where to connect the white wire from the kill switch?

aceaceca · Sep 5, 2016

Put smaller fittings on the point wires. Any short to ground there and no sparky. You could file them.

L.A.B. · Sep 6, 2016

joel1 said:
I successfully connected the white/yellow wire from the kill switch to the white/blue wire on the main harness.

However I don't know where to connect the white wire from the kill switch?

Connect to harness 'white' [W] (from the ignition master switch) in the same main junction area below the fuel tank.

joel1 · Sep 6, 2016

I have hooked up the wiring from the kill switch to the main harness and now am getting a reading White/blue of 11.49v at the ballast resistor. The white/yellow wire at the ballast resistor is showiing 5.52 volts.

I used the head steady bolt that secures the red lines for the cross connection of the volt meter.

The next troubleshooting is either to go back and find out the loss of voltage? Or proceed onward testing the coils???

L.A.B. · Sep 6, 2016

joel1 said:
Or proceed onward testing the coils???

Still no sign of any sparks at all with the plugs out and resting against the cylinder head?

Check for voltage at each set of points (points open)?

Are the blue 'Power' coils 6V or 12V?

Check the coil primary resistance (200 Ohms range) and secondary (20kOhms range) resistances readings are similar.

I'm not sure what the readings should be for those 'Power' coils but I would expect the primary resistance to be somewhere around 2.0 Ohms so it would perhaps be useful if you can say what the readings are?

It's possible the old ignition condensers may not be any good now.

joel1 · Sep 6, 2016

L.A.B. said:
joel1 said:

Or proceed onward testing the coils???

Click to expand...

Still no sign of any sparks at all with the plugs out and resting against the cylinder head?

Check for voltage at each set of points (points open)?

Are the blue 'Power' coils 6V or 12V?

Check the coil primary resistance (Ohms) and secondary (kOhms) resistances readings are similar.

I'm not sure what the readings should be for those 'Power' coils but I would expect the primary resistance to be somewhere around 2.0 Ohms so it would perhaps be useful if you can say what the readings are?

It's possible the old ignition condensers may not be any good now.

A surprising new development has occurred. I wired up the bike correctly and after I tested and posted the results; my wife called me in for dinner (That is one of the few times I lay the wrenches down). While I'm eating my son comes in from out in the garage and tells me the sparks plugs are producing a blue spark. I guess in the excitment of dinner time I failed to check for spark. I quickly finished and out to the garage we went. Sure enough the plugs are sparking.

I'm inclined to move forward with either setting the timing correctly or continuing to wire the rest of the control levers.
Any thoughts of which way to go timing or continuining wiring?
Admittedly wiring does hurt my head.
Thank you L.A.B. for your willingness to share your years of experience.

joel1 · Sep 6, 2016

aceaceca said:
Put smaller fittings on the point wires. Any short to ground there and no sparky. You could file them.

Getting new smaller connector ends is on my to do list. I'm pretty sure I may have problems with those over sized connectors.

L.A.B. · Sep 6, 2016

joel1 said:
A surprising new development has occurred. I wired up the bike correctly and after I tested and posted the results; my wife called me in for dinner (That is one of the few times I lay the wrenches down). While I'm eating my son comes in from out in the garage and tells me the sparks plugs are producing a blue spark. I guess in the excitment of dinner time I failed to check for spark. I quickly finished and out to the garage we went. Sure enough the plugs are sparking.

:wink:

joel1 said:
I'm inclined to move forward with either setting the timing correctly or continuing to wire the rest of the control levers.
Any thoughts of which way to go timing or continuining wiring?

No, I will leave that up to you.

joel1 said:
Admittedly wiring does hurt my head.

Just keep at it, there can't be all that much wiring left to do now.

joel1 said:
Thank you L.A.B. for your willingness to share your years of experience.

:wink: It's all good fun.

joel1 · Sep 6, 2016

Tonight an attempt was made to kick it over. One back fire came from the passenger side muffler after multiple kicks.
So that was enough.

I want to review the timing procedures again.

In my mind what I have learned thus far. (And it is subject to not be entirely accurate. 28 degrees on the crankshaft with the driver piston on the intake stroke. Once that is positioned correctly. Then the yellow/black wired point can be gapped at .012. So long as the timing advance is held counter clockwise as far as it will go.

L.A.B you had mentioned that the heal of the point should align with the mark on the timing advance. I have metric points with a plastic sweep. I think the plastic sweep should be in line with the timing advance mark??

Also if the above is accurate I will need to learn how to set the gap on the white/black point.
I will spend the day continuing to read threads.

It was a good day. The Norton has achieved spark.

L.A.B. · Sep 7, 2016

joel1 said:
28 degrees on the crankshaft with the driver piston on the intake stroke. Once that is positioned correctly. Then the yellow/black wired point can be gapped at .012. So long as the timing advance is held counter clockwise as far as it will go.

No, the points should just be starting to open or 'break' when the crank is at 28 degrees BTDC with the points cam held fully advanced.
Adjusting the points gaps and setting the ignition timing should be treated as two completely separate tasks.

joel1 said:
L.A.B you had mentioned that the heal of the point should align with the mark on the timing advance. I have metric points with a plastic sweep. I think the plastic sweep should be in line with the timing advance mark??

Not sure what you mean by 'metric' points as the Lucas 6CA points are basically no different.

Setting the points gaps:
'Ignition timing' marks should be ignored during this procedure.
Turn the crank until the scribed line on the points cam aligns with the heel of one set of points.
Adjust the gap on that set of points, (manual says .015") then turn the crank again until the scribed line aligns with the heel of the other set of points and adjust the gap.
That's the points gapping done.
(manual, section C40).

To set the ignition timing, follow the instructions in manual section C38 Ignition timing procedure-engine static.

Note that the information at C38, 9. is slightly misleading as it says: "Rotate the engine backwards gently until the machined mark on the rotor registers with 28° on the indicator plate. At this precise moment the contact breaker points should start to open...."

If the crank is turned 'backwards' the points will actually be closing, so turn the crank backwards past 28°, then turn it forwards and adjust (manual C38, 10) so the points are just beginning to open at 28° with the points cam set fully advanced.
Rotate the crank one turn and repeat the procedure for the other cylinder but this time adjust the opening point using the secondary backplate (C38, 11). If you cannot get both sets of points to open at 28 deg. BTDC within the adjustment ranges of the main backplate and secondary backplates then it will be necessary to extract the auto advance assembly from its taper and re-position it.

joel1 · Sep 8, 2016

I followed the above instructions for both gapping points and timing.

The gapping procedure went relatively easy. And the results were quick. Big spark. That in itself was so rewarding.

The timing was a bit more challenging. With that being said. I set the timing but was having issues getting the points to open at 28 degrees. I ended up removing the points plate and turning it 180 degrees. Doing this I was able to achieve the correct gap opening at 28 degrees.

I put some gas in the spark plug holes and kicked it over. It fired on the second kick.

So timing will now need to be done with a timing light.

grandpaul · Sep 9, 2016

Great news.

joel1 · Oct 14, 2016

I have this fender mount in my box of parts. But I am not sure where it goes?

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Nor ... ajaxhist=0

I've looked around at some other pics but haven't much. If someone has a pic of this part that is correctly installed.

Also, I am working on attaching the rear commando fastback rear fender and the fiberglass rear tail cowl.

I think the frame is sandwiched between the fiberglass rear tail and metal rear fender.

The metal rear fender is below the frame and the fiberglass is mounted on top of the rear frame.

Just needing to know what hardware is used to sandwich the two together.

I purchased a rear clip that mounts the rear tail cowl to the frame. But that leaves the rear metal frame to deal with. I think a spacer is needed but not sure. Anyone have pics that would be great. thank you in advance.

auldblue · Oct 14, 2016

Hi buddy

Look up the Andover site it will have images with what you need. On mine it's two studs on the cowl the one at the front goes through the fender. Then the hole at the bottom of the fender attaches to the number plate holder and that is that.
As for the bracket mine does not have it fitted, maybe it should have but it has never been on since I have had the 69 bike.
Cheers .

L.A.B. · Oct 14, 2016

joel1 said:
I have this fender mount in my box of parts. But I am not sure where it goes?

https://andover-norton.co.uk/en/shop-details/15627

1970-rear-mudguard-bracket-spacers-t25487.html#p338305

Although not the correct bracket for a '72 model.

Chris Larkin · Mar 11, 2020

grandpaul said:
Lots of questions, lots of answers.

Amal now has "stay up" floats and viton-tipped metallic float needles, both recommended. Also available in complete rebuild kits. You MUST soak the carb bodies and all metallic parts in a 1-gallon can of warm Berryman's Chem-Dip for at least half an hour, then rinse thoroughly. I use Craftsman "ball end" allen wrenches to nip up the intake bolts (always mount the carbs to the intakes first, ticklers facing OUT)

BritBike.Com lists Kim's CDs, they're available in many different places.

I don't care for tank liners unless you cut out the bottom of the tank, strip it properly, line the top and bottom halves, then seal the two VERY CAREFULLY. I don't do this myself. Good Indian steel tanks are available for a reasonable price.

Old Britts has complete fuel line assemblies ready to bolt on (they also sell ALL Commando bits at good prices, including cables, wiring harnesses, etc).

I like to have the enricher slides in place, rather than not having them and one cold day needing them.

Tri-Spark has perhaps the best reputation of all EI systems, also perhaps the most expensive. I use Sparx with excellent results (yes, a VERY few warranty returns, all done very quickly). Others use Pazon with good success. I don't like Boyers, personally; I have SEEN (personally) and heard (plenty) of failure reports (although some people have old ones still firing just fine). They all fit all points cavity model Commandos, some can be adapted to magneto hole Commandos.

I make basic, simple wiring harnesses (for my bikes and custom builds) that have a 100% perfect record (some for over 20 years); others use various relays, etc. which are nice.

I have a reseller account with BritishOnly, they've been supplying about 25-30% of my Triumph/Norton/BSA needs for over 15 years; I like their search feature, it's very handy (but you kinda need to know the part number). I also like that they have used, Pacific Rim, and British parts options for lots of thier stock.

GrandPaul - Your basic, simple wiring harness, mentioned above. As I disassemble my 73' 850 I become more stressed about all the hanging (not connected) wiring. I believe in "less is more" making me curious about the harness you refer too. May we talk about it, please. chrislarkin@cox.net or 619 204-7505 (San Diego, CA)

I'm a newbie wishing to know what I have. (2013)

joel1

L.A.B.

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joel1

L.A.B.

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joel1

aceaceca

L.A.B.

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joel1

L.A.B.

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joel1

joel1

L.A.B.

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joel1

L.A.B.

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joel1

grandpaul

joel1

auldblue

L.A.B.

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Chris Larkin

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