Higher output stator for LED lights

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@Bernhard they fitted a battery and a capacitor to a zener regulator bolted to a brilliant heat sink and separate full wave silicon rectifier to a coil and points system with a ballast resistor and condensers.

So you couldn’t get more different.


Plus, they weren’t dealing with a short-type reg/rec and the problems that introduces to a standard setup, let alone to a system with zero load during normal running.
 
I'm bringing in another stator and rotor. That will go in 1st and if I get over 12 volts I should be good. Then we'll see about replacing the podtronics. I can't find out if my podtronics has a capacitor or not (probably not because its 2007 rated at 160W). But if it works without a battery - why change it?

My concern is - will using a podtronics without a battery or capacitor damage the stator? Is that what damaged my stator in the 1st place?
 
I'm bringing in another stator and rotor. That will go in 1st and if I get over 12 volts I should be good. Then we'll see about replacing the podtronics. I can't find out if my podtronics has a capacitor or not (probably not because its 2007 rated at 160W). But if it works without a battery - why change it?

My concern is - will using a podtronics without a battery or capacitor damage the stator? Is that what damaged my stator in the 1st place?
Siggest you remove and get your R/R checked first, because if it is that at fault, then you will damage any subsequent stator you fit on.
 
@Bernhard they fitted a battery and a capacitor to a zener regulator bolted to a brilliant heat sink and separate full wave silicon rectifier to a coil and points system with a ballast resistor and condensers.

So you couldn’t get more different.


Plus, they weren’t dealing with a short-type reg/rec and the problems that introduces to a standard setup, let alone to a system with zero load during normal running.

A Zener regulates by shunting.
 
@Triton Thrasher yes and a Podtronics prevents overheating by shorting the AC supply.
Whether there is shunting involved doesn’t come into it (the Podtronics, the Zener and the Shindengen all shunt)

With no electrical consumers on a magneto bike, no capacitor, no battery to charge and reduced load on the occasions when the LED lights are switched on, it will be shorting out the stator for the majority of the time.
 
(the Podtronics, the Zener and the Shindengen all shunt)

Getting confusing this, I thought the Shindengen, went open circuit to regulate, I see they do make shunt regs, is that what you use?
 
@Triton Thrasher yes and a Podtronics prevents overheating by shorting the AC supply.
Whether there is shunting involved doesn’t come into it (the Podtronics, the Zener and the Shindengen all shunt)

With no electrical consumers on a magneto bike, no capacitor, no battery to charge and reduced load on the occasions when the LED lights are switched on, it will be shorting out the stator for the majority of the time.
There was an article referenced somewhere on this site that actually tested how much heat is developed on our alt's when shunting. It was trivial, under 60 or 80 Celcius after long duration shunting and not in the primary case with warm, hot oil splashing about. Point was much more heat gets to alt from the crank conduction path than from shunting. I think the concern is over blown.

EDIT:
Have not been able to find the testing article I read some time back, but did find this enlightening article referenced over on BritBikes:

"
How permanent-magnet charging systems really work.


There seem to be quite a few misconceptions about how vfr charging systems operate. Everybody understands that they "throw away" excess power, but not many seem to realize how little power is thrown away, at least when things work right.

Permanent magnet AC generators have some rather counterintuitive properties: The most important is that the generator tends, at normal operating speed, to be a source of constant current, not a source of voltage. Constant voltage sources, (wall plugs and batteries) are more familiar, so the VFR charging system is a bit alien. When you short out the stator of a VFR it's doing less work than it would be otherwise.

"
 
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All reg/recs shunt to a certain extent.

As I frequently say, drop the terminology shunt - because they all do that and it just confuses everyone.


Instead, refer to the Podtronics/Boyer Bransden Power Box/Tympanium as a short-type reg/rec.
When the battery reaches it’s target voltage, the stator AC output lines are dead shorted.
Any over voltage is then shunted as normal.


Refer to the Shindengen SH775 and SH847 (also some models made by Cycle Electric, Computer-Fire, Silent-Hektik and even Electrex World) as a series-type or open-type reg/rec.
With these, when the battery reaches it’s target voltage, the AC supply lines are opened up, effectively disconnecting the stator.
Any over voltage is then shunted in the usual way.



@Tornado I don‘t care about the heat, nor do I care about the loss of power at the crank with the additional resistance introduced from a shorted stator.
These are all minuscule quibbles on the scale of things.

What I do care about is the shorter life our stators seem to have these days.
They are fine for 30 years or more, then when we begin installing reg/recs we start to see a huge increase in failure rate.
I don’t believe this is a coincidence.

I also feel it is good for customers of these ‘uprated’ components to be better informed and understand where the compromises are as well as the benefits.
I think it is important to understand the need of a balanced charging system and understand that installing LEDs and a high power alternator is not a good combination.
Funnily enough, this is all stuff that the manufacturers of these components don’t talk about.

I am often accused of hating Podtronics.
I don’t mind them, nor do I mind the $10 Honda reg/rec units bought from eBay.
...if they are used with a standard, unmodified charging system, you have a healthy battery and capacitor, and that you keep your headlights switched on all the time so that the reg/rec has got something to do.
But alas, that is not usually the way it is.
 
All reg/recs shunt to a certain extent.

As I frequently say, drop the terminology shunt - because they all do that and it just confuses everyone.


Instead, refer to the Podtronics/Boyer Bransden Power Box/Tympanium as a short-type reg/rec.

No.

installing LEDs and a high power alternator is not a good combination.

Yes, it is a bit pointless.

I don’t mind them, nor do I mind the $10 Honda reg/rec units bought from eBay.
...if they are used with a standard, unmodified charging system, you have a healthy battery and capacitor,

Why would the capacitor matter?

and that you keep your headlights switched on all the time so that the reg/rec has got something to do.

If you keep the headlight on, the regulator has less to do.
 
They put the capacitor in to help absorb some of the spikes and surge as well as smooth the rectified DC produced.
It also means you stand a chance of getting home if your battery fails.
You need a battery or a capacitor or both - not running either with any kind of reg/rec is asking for trouble.
I choose to take them out of my systems, as I keep a well maintained battery.

If you have your headlight on all the time, you are drawing more power - keep drawing from the battery means the reg/rec is charging it.
So your reg/rec has more to do than when your battery is fully charged and the reg/rec has shorted the AC input.


I’m done with going round in circles, so I’m out on this thread now.
 
If you have your headlight on all the time, you are drawing more power - keep drawing from the battery means the reg/rec is charging it.
So your reg/rec has more to do than when your battery is fully charged and the reg/rec has shorted the AC input.

I’d really say the opposite.

When everything is switched on, you hardly even need a regulator.
 
My lights are always on (there is no off switch). I'll be using a stock stator (not high power). And I'm ready to spring for a new podtronics with capasitor.

I can't find out if my 2007 160W podtronics has a capasitor or not - anyone have a customer service # for podtronics? There's no # on their web page and no one answers the emails.
 
My lights are always on (there is no off switch). I'll be using a stock stator (not high power). And I'm ready to spring for a new podtronics with capasitor.

I can't find out if my 2007 160W podtronics has a capasitor or not - anyone have a customer service # for podtronics? There's no # on their web page and no one answers the emails.
It's not likely to have one. But you can add one externally to see if it makes a difference. From Amazon:

Higher output stator for LED lights
 
I just called coventry and they told me it won't hurt anything to run without a capacitor. The capacitor keeps the lights from flickering and keeps the motor from dying at idle (mine's on magneto). I got another opinion from JRC that it won't hurt anything to run without a capacitor or battery.
 
Hi Jim, I don`t know how your lights are switched.... maybe I read something over in this thread. I build my own wiring harness and put in 3 relays....

1 for horn, 1 for dipped beam and 1 for highbeam. result is brighter light....dipped beam is always on....also in long stop and go city traffic: no significant voltage drop
 
This seems to me to be Waaaay too much worrying over a non-problem. Interesting to me how many issues are caused by "upgrading" things. Makes one wonder what the term "upgrade" means. IMO, it means to improve the pocketbook balance of a maker of such "upgrades." It has nothing to do with making a device - in this case a Norton Commando - function better than it did from the factory...often has the opposite effect. ;)
 
This seems to me to be Waaaay too much worrying over a non-problem. Interesting to me how many issues are caused by "upgrading" things. Makes one wonder what the term "upgrade" means. IMO, it means to improve the pocketbook balance of a maker of such "upgrades." It has nothing to do with making a device - in this case a Norton Commando - function better than it did from the factory...often has the opposite effect. ;)
I have to agree with this comment. One has to question the wisdom of the owner who fits LED bulbs that draw less watts than the orginal fitment bulbs and wants to upgrade the alternator output at the same time?
 
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