Help with Norton model anyone?

Re: Help with Norton model anyone? now new question!

The bike is coming along fabulously; I will post some pics pretty soon to show how far it has come since I posted the pics of me taking out of that guys garage after 27 years.....

So I have a new question to ask the experts here at Commando Command.... I posted the below question on another commando site that sells parts and didn't get a response, but this group has been more than helpful. I would really really appreciate your input since I could end up wasting several hundred dollars if I decide incorrectly. And I really am trying to do this bike up right and do it and myself justice. Here was my question:

" Norton Commando - 1 or 2 carbs? please help
by modsvsrockers on Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:59 pm

So I recently bought a 71 Norton that had been sitting since 1982 and needed everything, and I am now almost done. Motor was seized. Fixed. New valves, springs, guides, punched, pistons, rings, gaskets, tranny, bars, controls, headlight, front and rear fender, I mean a bunch of stuff....a lot more than just this stuff. It is getting close to being done, and I may even put fire to her in the next few weeks.....

anyhow, moving on.

I have read of the joys of the Norton's power and handling, but the misers of it's unreliability and trouble starting. I wouldn't know, I have never had this bike running or been on a Norton. Online research indicated that electronic ignition is a good place to start (pun intended), so I bought that to ditch the points, condenser, etc. Now, I've also read that you should go with a single carb conversion instead of the dual carbs.

But wait...my Bonneville is special because it has dual carbs and gives it a few more horses than the tiger? Why would I want to do this with my Norton?

I obviously need to have my Norton carbs rebuilt, but have held out spending this money because I am on the fence about buying a single carb mikuni conversion here at MAP. Insert plug. But I don't want to sacrifice power solely for convenience. I know amals, I am not afraid of them, I have had my Bonne since I was a teenager. But it seems like such a popular conversion...so you Norton guys must know something that I don't.

So, my question, is it really that much of a benefit to go single with this modern conversion? How much power are you sacrificing for an easy start? Do you sacrifice only high RPM power, or low end? I could careless about losing top speed, but would be PISSED if I lost acceleration. And is it that much more reliable? I mean, my dad got a pair of mikuni's for his Sonny Routz Triumph and had so many problems with tuning them that he ditched them and went back to the amals.

Rebuild the dual set up, or change to the mikuni single? Help me Obi Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope......

Dan Lucas
modsvsrockers"

Since I am asking questions, do you guys know of vendors/manufacturers that make cafe style seats for commandos? I mean, besides corbin? I am looking for something still padded and relatively comfortable, and don't want a fiberglass pan. Plus, I can't afford a manx style tank yet, so I am staying stock and many cafe seats aren't correct to the stock tank. My brother has a two person cafe style padded seat on his BSA that i really, really like, but that seat is at least 30 years old and I haven't the first clue where to look for that style...... my better half would probably scoff less at the amount of money I have been spending if she knew she could ride on the back too =) at least occasionally. or once.

MANY MANY MANY THANKS!!!!!

If you are familiar and comfortable with the Amals, get them sleeved and be done. I'm going to do the screw in pilot jet conversion that was recently talked about. You may want to consider that too.

Maybe try Clubman for seats?



Or better yet:



http://www.oldbritts.com/13_500002.html

Regarding hinge location, all the fiberglass tanks hinged in the front, steel at the back. Early '72 750 Interstate tanks were fiberglass (they have a noticable seam down the top center). Have seen fiberglass Interstate tanks on some '73 850s, but not sure they were original. My Dec '71 built '72 roadster has an original fiberglass tank (now sitting on a shelf).

The pin stripe on your '71 is original style (single line) used on black 750 tanks for '71, '72 and '73. I don't believe Norton pin striped any other tank color.

While in the gearbox replace the layshaft bearing with the roller version - see other strings in this forum for details. Look for a "gold strike" in the bottom of the case - bronze dust indicats bushes have been ground and need inspection and possible replacement. Commando gear teeth faces most ofter will have pitting, but does not mean they need to be replaced. Power output of a Commando engine is about double the stress of engines used in 1957 when Norton first used the AMC box.

WOW!!!! that old brit seat is perfect...except for the price. $440 is expensive for a seat. I'm going to have to think about that. i mean, I only paid $800 for the bike to start with!!!! I was looking for something around $200-$300. But that was what I was looking for.

How about the carbs? Have any input on the single versus dual?

westernjesus said:

WOW!!!! that old brit seat is perfect...except for the price. $440 is expensive for a seat. I'm going to have to think about that. i mean, I only paid $800 for the bike to start with!!!! I was looking for something around $200-$300. But that was what I was looking for.

How about the carbs? Have any input on the single versus dual?

Click to expand...

If it's the exact thing you want and no one else has it... I'd say it's the perfect price.

If you go onto the Norvil Motorcycles website it has a bike identification guide.
If your bike has legible frame and engine numbers you can check them against a year identification chart and find out exactly what you have got.
Regards
Andy KG

That sure looks like an 'S' type to me, sans the high-pipes. The clue is the headlight ring, which I believe was unique to the S-type.

The clue is the headlight ring, which I believe was unique to the S-type.

Click to expand...

Unique to the '69-'70 'S' and the '70 Roadster.

akingg1960 said:

If you go onto the Norvil Motorcycles website it has a bike identification guide.
If your bike has legible frame and engine numbers you can check them against a year identification chart and find out exactly what you have got.

Click to expand...

Personally I wouldn't rely on that list too much? As it certainly gives an owner an approximate indication of the production year and mark number of their Commando but it doesn't give any information on which body style it would have been originally, and the list is somewhat incomplete (models missing are: 750 'R Type', MkIV Roadster, Mk IV Fastback, MkIV Fastback LR, Production Racer, MkI 850 Roadster, 750/850 Interpol and '74 850 JPN).
Also the '70 750 Roadster model is listed as a "MkII", which I believe was actually the "750 Roadster" model, the '71 Roadster being the MkII model, not "MkIII" as, apparently there weren't any 750 MkIII Roadsters?

Resleeve and stick with the amals its worth it !!!
good luck

You are quite right there is a disclaimer printed at the top of this list which says that if you are in any doubt you should contact the VMCC because they hold all of the original factory records.
The point I was trying to make is that in my opinion when you start any restoration project you should try to accurately identify what parts you have actually got. A bike may look like a 1971 model for instance but unless the engine and frame numbers confirm this fact it isn't .
As far as the question of what carbs to fit - there are several options - mikuni, kehnin, MK2 concentrics, SU etc.
Its no coincidence that there are so many aftermarket kits to replace the original MK1 concentrics.
The reason for this is the fact that the MK1 has a basic design error - as standard it doesn't have a removable pilot jet and most carbs do. Obviously pilot jets are so small that they are prone to blockage so it makes sense to be able to remove them in order to be able to clean them .
The other problem with these carbs is the fact that on Commando's they originally had no rubber manifolds fitted to them to protect them against the negative effects of engine vibration so the slides and bores wear very quickly and once they wear past a certain point its difficult to keep the carbs tuned properly
If you want to retain the original MK1 concentrics on your bike then you need to make sure that the slides and bores are not worn out. If they are worn out you can buy the carb bodies and slides separately and re use all of the other bits from your original carbs (providing they are not worn out too) or get the bores re sleeved and fit new slides or just fit new carbs.
Machining the carbs to accept a screw in pilot jet is a great idea and so is drilling and tapping each carb body to accept an access plug which allows you to get a good view of the pressed in original jet .
But make sure that you don't rely on the petcock and banjo filters - ALWAYS fit additional in line filters and make sure that you keep the tank clean internally - if it is a metal tank apply a rust treatment and then a sealer.
Regards
Andy KG

L.A.B. said:

JimC said:

Speaking of steel tanks, is the fill neck backwards on the aftermarket steel tanks? The pics of the aftermartket ones all show the hinge to the rear.

Click to expand...

The filler cap hinge direction was certainly reversed on the original late model tanks for safety reasons, I believe?

As in the event of the motorcycle and rider being involved in a head-on collision, with the cap pivot towards the rider, the cap then presented less of a danger to the rider's genital area if it unlatched and flipped up due to the force of the impact .

I believe there was US legislation introduced during the mid-'70s that required filler caps to be designed so they would not cause injury to the rider in the event of a collision.

Click to expand...

Funny thing, safety. The old Monza caps were hinged at the front for what were seen as good reasons too, I expect. Reasons like not being so easily unlatched by low-flying sparrows, not flying completely open if unlatched at speed, ease of seeing into and refilling the tank while seated.

Hello again,

Thanks for everyone's original help with figuring out more about my bike. I wanted to post some photos of my project so far, since it is getting pretty close to being done. It gets paint this month, and all I have left to do is wire it and put the oil lines on it. And obviously finish the seat. I am taking a stab at making my own...




and here is one of it in pretty much restored stock...I put it together so I could go from stock look to cafe look in a day or so, just change the tank, seat, and rear set...


Let me know your thoughts!

Dan

Dan,
what part of PA are you in?
Get her running by spring as there is a gathering of the Nortons in April in Bucks County.
It is hosted by the DelVal Norton Owners.
It's a great time especially for a newbie to Norton, yeah you'll see Triumph and BSA's there.
Something for all no one is excluded.
We all get ideas from one another, see some orig bikes like mine, and see some cafes that have magnificient
machinists for owners, some great ideas change hands. We drink allot of coffee, eat hot dogs from the local Boy Scout troop and then go for a group ride and show the rest of Bucks County what they're missing.
I think you would be perfect for it
Marshal :mrgreen:

Hi Marshal,

Is this the Bucks County gathering (from Delaware Valley Norton Owners website):
April 18 17th annual Gathering of the Nortons, Washington Crossing, PA

Love to bring my Commando to ride in this area if only can find a way to get it on board the airplane. I have a customer in Allentown and come to the area a few times a year.

I am in Harrisburg area, so not that far. I WILL have her road worthy by April, so I will definitely try to make it out. Thanks for the input, and keep the greasy side down

David,
yes this is the same Del Val ride.
If your in the area in April PM me on here.
I'm sure you can find your way around a yellow combat for the day.
I have an electraglide I'd have no problem riding along side you in the ride.
That's the nice thing about being a Norton rider.
Serious as a heart attack if your in the area let me know.
PM me for my cell # if it works out w/ your schedule.
Love to ride the west coast someday :mrgreen:
Marshal

Dan,
your an hour away no excuse not to ride some of the nicest roads in our area.
Plus you'll meet a number of Nortoneers who love being asked What's this for?
Seroiusly, got to try to make it.
Marshal

Hi Marshall,

Will see how the schedule goes in April - thank you for the offer. Maybe one thing the west has that's not in the east... that's high altitude. You should see what 10,000 feet does to a Commando's power. The nice part is you can run any grade of gas with no pinging problem. Still think I could spend days on the back roads of Penns Mennonite country.