Help with Norton ID

Joined
Jun 24, 2013
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Hello all, newbie here.

I have recently acquired a 1968 Norton 750, frame number is 124335, which seems to fall between the cracks of a Commando, an Atlas or a Ranger, if I read the charts correctly. If more info is needed, please tell me what is needed. Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks.
 
A picture would help, considerably.
If its not stock, that could cover almost anything.
The number and code on the engine will assist too.

BTW, that number should be somwhere around early 1968. ?
Atlas numbers ran into early Commando numbers, so there should be no gaps to fall into ?
 
Have a look under the tank at the frame, up by the steering head. Does it have a gusset, partially wrapped around the top tube, or does it have a smaller diameter tube about 1" diameter running horizontally from the steering head back to the main (2" or thereabouts) top tube. If its the wrap around gusset type be very careful, those early Commando frames could fail, i.e. break, come apart etc. If its the 1" diameter tube type then someone has changed the frame over. I saw a 25000 sq ft factory partly full of returned Commandos with the earlier frame.
Better to be safe than the other, in this instance.
cheers
wakeup
 
In theory, that number is too low to be anything to do with a Commando.
Is a few thousand before the 1st production. !
A pic would be helpful.
 
Look on Norvil's "Identify Your Bike" link http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/. .

There is nothing on that list that would remotely identify what model it might be, other than its too early for Commando. ?

The code on the engine will likely say what it might be, along with a pic of it, to be sure.
But anything could have happened to it over the past 40+ years, so even then no guarantees thats how it started life ??

It has been noted here before that that list is none too accurate though, and even the list of models is incomplete....
 
Rohan said:
There is nothing on that list that would remotely identify what model it might be, other than its too early for Commando. ?

Really???

Help with Norton ID
 
So is 124372 the first P11A ?
Or just a number they selected at random ?
Doesn't actually spell that out...
And did Nortons produce them in strict numerical order ?

And what is 124373 then ?

Under Nortons numbering system, the next bike could be any of the models they then had in production. ?
And from previous discussions here on this, Norvils list is apparently none too accurate.
There are other published versions which disagree.
So where did they get these numbers then...
 
Rohan said:
So where did they get these numbers then...
Help with Norton ID


Just an additional question, Rohan: Why does me trying to give the original poster some help cause you to have such paroxysms of indignation?
 
Being amused at the suggested simplicity here may be a more appropriate term ?
Suggesting a bike can be identified from just a frame number (without a quoted engine number)(and no picture) in Nortons 'system' is, well, just fanciful ?
The Norton Manuals ALL say to quote an engine number and frame number for identification.
And that was for a factory bike. With 4 decades of possible later modifications to now take into account. ?!
Choppers, hybrids, cafe racers, specials and just plain junk now all come into the account. ?

Folks have been ruminating on Nortons meanderings through the numbering system, for quite some decades now.
Apparently, if you have the journals in your hands, some sense can be made of their 'system'.
But from the limited information released over the years, mere mortals cannot even glimpse the whole story ?

For example, the factory production year ran Sept to Sept, and this has apparently caused quite a few misunderstandings.
Some folks quote calendar years, some folks quote model years, and some quote year of registration.
And none of these may necessarily coincide.
(Did this apply for all Commando production, or did this change part way through ? )

And Nortons apparently, at various times, reserved whole blocks of numbers for a specific model.
This means that, for example, an ES2 number would be followed by another ES2 number.
But this may not have been built until months later - or whole blocks of ES2 numbers were built months later, with seemingly sequential numbers.

And bikes requiring rework were put back into the system, and numbered when they were finished - so sequential numbers may have been months and months apart.

Its a minefield out there.
Without a picture, and serial numbers, could be calling an apple an orange....
 
Rohan said:
Being amused at the suggested simplicity here may be a more appropriate term ?
Suggesting a bike can be identified from just a frame number (without a quoted engine number)(and no picture) in Nortons 'system' is, well, just fanciful ?
And that is why I said " It looks like it might be 1967/68 P11 -- maybe -- but photo's would help".
Corona850 said:
Look on Norvil's "Identify Your Bike" link http://www.norvilmotorcycle.co.uk/. It looks like it might be 1967/68 P11 -- maybe -- but photo's would help.
Note: "might" and "maybe" indicate a lack of certainty, and I suggested photos would help. So, what's the problem?

And couldn't you perhaps have provided your insight to the original poster before now without attacking my post so aggressively?

In the For Sale section a new poster had this to say:

Hollywood Jon said:
wow this is the most unwelcoming motorcycle site I've ever been to. ... ..... I'll be sure to let others in the motorcycle community know this too.
Wonder why he could ever have come to a conclusion like that, eh? Ya think he might have a point?
 
Point to one 'agressive' word that I said ?

I could have said your post was complete rubbish, uttered a chapter of ^*&%%$$$#$#, and said you were a blithering idiot for saying that.
Like other forums do.
Now that is aggressive, and unpleasant ?

Not to be 'aggressive' again, but who is Hollywood Joe ?
Has he ever posted here, or asked anything ?
Or been involved in a discussion ?
Other, knowledgeable, folks have said that this is the best forum for getting good information, without the bullshit.
Very little goes here that you wouldn't meet in a robust discussion on pub night.
Without the fisticuffs ?!

Without a picture, we don't have a clue what this bike might be - there are all sorts of strange anomalies in Norton land, and the P11 wasn't the only bike they were turning out at that stage ? Could easily be an Atlas ?? That number alone doesn't tell us. Could be a Matchless, with Norton decals on it - or no decals on it ? We haven't seen a pic, yet...
 
Sorry to have started a kerfuffle. Thanks for all the replys. Turns out the bike is all original, however, it's a Matchless. I am contrite.
Thanks again for the help.
 
Kerfuffle was none of your doing !
Good you sorted it out - certainly proves that just a number isn't everything.
(A pic definitely would have helped though.)
Enjoy !
 
When folks come on here, all knowledgeable like, and pretend they know everything, when its obvious to everyone they don't, maybe then they need a laxative.....

But perhaps we shouldn't sink to your level
 
Brothers helping brothers...that is what this forum is, or ought to be, about. Don't use it to win arguments, or for one-upsmanship. You can disagree with someone's post, but do so carefully.
 
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