Greta Thunberg and the climate

Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
2,983
Country flag
Agree that decentralized is more efficient, at least in regard to employing current technology in solar panels.

Decentralized residential solar or wind can easily satisfy most residential lighting requirements, but heating, cooling, and cooking (assuming electric) are bigger issues. Who can, or would want to, go days without heat, cooling or cooking? Or even overnight? Battery backup? Not yet cost effective or practical.

Why not generate your own power? Because it is not reliable!!!

Even if you could convince Wal-Mart to put solar panels on the roof tops of all their stores, even if it were more economical than being on the grid, a commercial establishment will opt to have backup power available, either as the grid or a diesel gen-set. No one will shop a store that is dark. And hardly anyone these days can earn a living without reliable power.

Solar often fails us when we most need it. Consider a home in the extreme latitudes where, in winter, the sky is overcast 8 days per week. Heat is the need, and getting it from stored energy is not practical, either from batteries, or from water which is the most practical way to store renewable sourced energy.

I designed my own home. I considered all the energy saving technologies available circa 1995. In the end, I decided to forsake "getting off the grid" strategies and went with conservation strategies. I cool a 2400 square ft home in the Texas heat with 2 tons of air conditioning. My annual propane consumption for heating is typically 300 gallons per year (includes hot water and cooking).

Perhaps, in the next several decades, technology may offer new strategies to consider. That will be too late for me, likely you as well, but we can hope our grandkids will utilize them.

Slick

Slick, too much today, not enough tomorrow thinking. Like Butch said to Sundance, “I’ve got vision and the rest of the world is wearing bifocals”.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Messages
1,969
Country flag
it is today's cost as you speak BUT that is what matters to most. if you look at the ROI it is still not a good way to go but at SOME point in time it might be feesable on a larger scale. most people will look at as "is the cost worth the return" and in most cases the juice is not worth the squeeze. again if you look at today's societies in the 40s a house that had electricity it was at most a 40 amp service and now it is at a minimum of 200 amps and larger homes at 400+. I don't see solar filling that roll at this time with today's technology.

The costs you speak of are today’s costs. Prices for solar equipment has dropped dramatically and will continue to do so. Years ago it was way too expensive for most homes to even consider electrifying. Kerosene for light, wood for cooking. That was it and those that couldn’t look into the future saw no change coming.
 

NPeteN

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
937
Country flag
Anticipation should be the mother of invention. Unfortunately humankind is woefully shortsighted.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
2,983
Country flag
“. I don't see solar filling that roll at this time with today's technology.”

That’s just the point, Bill. Tomorrow will not be using today’s technology.

Bill, you are certainly old enough to recall when you were out and about and you wanted to make a phone call you needed to hunt up a pay phone and have change in your pocket. Today it would be hard to find a pay phone.
 

texasSlick

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
2,781
Country flag
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear, can be paraphrased ....

When the technology appears, the users will be ready.

Slick
 

lazyeye6

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Feb 28, 2014
Messages
767
Country flag
to live as MOST people today live with a total electric home in Fl. it would take a huge investment in solar and wind generators along with a massive battery bank and inverter to power everything most people use so IMHO it is not cost effective, unless you want to live about like the 1930s. using a wood stove to cook on and heat water and no air conditioning to name 2. i wont argue with you about how Fl. is but you cant fight the gov. on this. also i can partialy agree on the water well issue near the coast. as the population has grown salt water intrusion has become a greater problem and will only get worse. no i dont have the answer but it is a fact that has to be dealt with but how do you limit growth???
BIRTH CONTROL!!
Religion and the governmental economy operate as a Ponzi Scheme. Always counting on population growth to solve today’s problems. I live in California. Nice weather! Today’s homeless population of 50,000 will be 500,000 on 10 more years. The problem is too many people and the government being unwilling to think in new creative ways. We have the technology but not the resolve.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
2,983
Country flag
The United States has 540 people with a combined worth of $9.1 trillion. Maybe a more egalitarian distribution of wealth might decrease the number of homeless.

And the first thing Trump did once in office was to see those 540 got a huge tax cut.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
2,983
Country flag
Well that sounds like you are doing nothing but mental masturbation!

Slick
Go mastrabate yourself, Slick.

If I paid for what you are worth, then sold for what you think you’re worth, I’d make a real handsome profit.

I thought you were worthy of an intellectual debate, but I was wrong.
 
Last edited:

NPeteN

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
937
Country flag
Same to you as I said to Slick.

Your comment is like a 5th grader lacking any intelligence.
Didn't you know you're not allowed to have any opinions or ideas about anything unless you are 100% involved in living those ideals 24/7?
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
2,983
Country flag
Didn't you know you're not allowed to have any opinions or ideas about anything unless you are 100% involved in living those ideals 24/7?

Show us your solar and wind farm is not an opinion or an idea. Is it?
 

NPeteN

VIP MEMBER
Joined
Nov 20, 2018
Messages
937
Country flag
Show us your solar and wind farm is not an opinion or an idea. Is it?
I was criticising the claim that "unless you have your own solar and wind farm" you are not allowed to advocate for the adoption of renewable energy. As was implied by Bill.

I'd rather not get into a war of words here. On either side.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Messages
1,969
Country flag
so for someone that claims to be so smart you fail to see the reasons why solar and wind is NOT in wide use at the single home AT THIS TIME!!! as I stated sooner or later it might come to fruition. but as you seem to hate the rich, these are the people that 1 can afford it, 2 invest in the tech, 3 just like a TV as the people with money to spend on the latest and greatest TV, as more are sold the price comes down more to the common mans price. it is economics of scale but all you do is spout crap about doom and gloom and dont answer what part you are doing.

Same to you as I said to Slick.

Your comment is like a 5th grader lacking any intelligence.
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2003
Messages
1,969
Country flag
I NEVER said was not for renewable energy BUT at this time it is not a viable TOTAL replacement. electric cars are a good thing IF you live in an inner city and don't travel long distances but at this time it does not fit me. as i stated a total off grid home is not an option for the lifestyle MOST people choose to live at this time. will it happen?? maybe but it is when.

I was criticising the claim that "unless you have your own solar and wind farm" you are not allowed to advocate for the adoption of renewable energy. As was implied by Bill.

I'd rather not get into a war of words here. On either side.
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2007
Messages
2,983
Country flag
Bill, I want to correct you on another of your assumptions. I do not hate the rich. When I stated that 540 US citizens have a combined wealth of $9.1 trillion I am only pointing out a fact. Do I think that is a gross inequity? Yes.I could make the assumption you idolize the wealthy, therefore you hate the poor. But I tend to be more intellectual than that.
 
Top