Grease the Swing Arm Spindle
- Thread starter Stephen Hill
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Much ado bout nada.
Some problems may arise if greased on assembly instead of oiling as grease may block path of oil.
As LAB says, bronze bushes suck up hold and release their oil.
The spindles wear far more than the bushes and they're relatively cheap and easy to swap out.
Some problems may arise if greased on assembly instead of oiling as grease may block path of oil.
As LAB says, bronze bushes suck up hold and release their oil.
The spindles wear far more than the bushes and they're relatively cheap and easy to swap out.
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Say the swingarm has seen grease before, even once ,it will clog up the spindle lubrication holes so that any subsequent addition of a thick oil will be thwarted. S.T.P. works well for me through the stoopid spindle locating bolt hole using a teensyweenie funnel and patience. Next winter will try carefully warming up the S.T.P. before any pouring. Have done the swingarm fix with outboard welded crushbolts pressing to spindle.
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My guess is that many Cdo's do not have really true surfaces to seal on so O ring buckles or twists enough lube can return to it source out gaps faster. If the spindle holes opened up and oil groves made and spindle ends sealed strong the oil nipple could accept grease pressure to reach where its needed. Oil may stick and stay on the bronze bushes but it don't stick and stay so good on rubbed steel surface so condensation can rust, swell and pit terrible in some cases. I'll butter my spindles not dip em in oil thank you.
Respectfully the point is that the bushes ABSORB Oil but Grease fills the holes not allowing the Bushes to do the job.
As far as slow oiling, STOP WAITING ON IT!
Go to a Feed/Horse Tack place,
Get a reusable Syringe,
Fill it with oil,
Get the bike standing straight up,
Remove the locating bolt,
Top off oil,
GO AWAY for a while,
Top off oil,
GO AWAY for a while,
Top off oil,
Replace bolt,
Clean up the mess (it will be pretty minor),
Ride for a year or so,
Repeat.
Vince
As far as slow oiling, STOP WAITING ON IT!
Go to a Feed/Horse Tack place,
Get a reusable Syringe,
Fill it with oil,
Get the bike standing straight up,
Remove the locating bolt,
Top off oil,
GO AWAY for a while,
Top off oil,
GO AWAY for a while,
Top off oil,
Replace bolt,
Clean up the mess (it will be pretty minor),
Ride for a year or so,
Repeat.
Vince
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- Jun 17, 2009
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- 642
Correct or not?
1) The actual movement of the spindle against the bushings is very small, and especially so when compared to the up and down movement of the wheel end of the swing arm.
2) The purpose of after market "rings" like Heinz Kegler's is to keep forward pressure on the spindle (hence bolts in rear facing forward), because it is the forward facing face of the
spindle that wears a slightly oblong shape in the bushings, which without such rings increases swing arm movement.
3) The four small holes in the spindle face directly downward with the expectation that lube will go down those holes and get between the spindle and bushings.
Therefore, while probably good that lube is getting to the bottom of the spindle, the forward face of the spindle is where lube really needs to get to.
Conclusion, when after market rings or such are installed, there is little if any benefit of lubing the inside of the spindle because lube cannot go "up" the forward face, or can it?
1) The actual movement of the spindle against the bushings is very small, and especially so when compared to the up and down movement of the wheel end of the swing arm.
2) The purpose of after market "rings" like Heinz Kegler's is to keep forward pressure on the spindle (hence bolts in rear facing forward), because it is the forward facing face of the
spindle that wears a slightly oblong shape in the bushings, which without such rings increases swing arm movement.
3) The four small holes in the spindle face directly downward with the expectation that lube will go down those holes and get between the spindle and bushings.
Therefore, while probably good that lube is getting to the bottom of the spindle, the forward face of the spindle is where lube really needs to get to.
Conclusion, when after market rings or such are installed, there is little if any benefit of lubing the inside of the spindle because lube cannot go "up" the forward face, or can it?
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I use Quad Ring O-rings for the swing arm, which seals better as there is now 4 contact points. I always set sintered bronze bushings in a oil bath 24 hrs before installing. Shim the gap between the sintered bronze bushings and the outside cheeks of the engine/gearbox cradle to about 0.005". McMaster Carr has shims of various thicknesses. The space between swing arm and engine cradle do vary. Do this without the o-rings installed until you get the gap right. Then use o-ring grease to make sure the large Quad rings don’t try to roll or get pinched while installing. You have to kind of waggle it on. This will keep the play to a minimum for improving O-ring seal while under driving loads as well as nullify the tail-wagging tendency of the Commando’s. I still do the Swing arm mod so this is just to help the cause. Large vet syringe is good to get 140Wt. oil in the top bolthole with the grease/oil nipple completely removed. When I see oil coming out of that hole I then button everything up.
CNN
CNN
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highdesert said:
In my opinion, yes that is correct.
highdesert said:
That's not correct, in my opinion. As the object of the Kegler rings is to eliminate play between the spindle and the cradle and not between the spindle and bushes/bushings.
highdesert said:
Again not correct in my opinion, as the pivot assembly will be under 'drive' force for most of the time-therefore the rear face of the spindle would make the greatest contact with the bushes-which would be opposite to what happens between the spindle and cradle.
highdesert said:
I really do think Commando owners need to get out of the habit of thinking that a constant film of lubrication has to be maintained between the bushes and the spindle. Sintered bronze is porous-so any lubricant which reaches the bush should (at least in theory) become evenly distributed within the actual structure of the sintered bush itself.
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DogT
Any O-ring seal company would be able to supply Quad rings. I happen to use Seals Unlimited in Mississauga Ontario, which was close to my work. You have to search your stomping grounds. Best to bring the old o-rings in as each company part number is a little different. Q-4212 (small) and Q-4223 (Large) are the description on my bill. The material is called Buna but you can also use Viton, which will be more expensive. By a few extras as spares just in case (referenced to my post above). I believe I paid $0.57 each. I also use quad rings in the gearbox.... but that’s for another thread. :mrgreen:
Any O-ring seal company would be able to supply Quad rings. I happen to use Seals Unlimited in Mississauga Ontario, which was close to my work. You have to search your stomping grounds. Best to bring the old o-rings in as each company part number is a little different. Q-4212 (small) and Q-4223 (Large) are the description on my bill. The material is called Buna but you can also use Viton, which will be more expensive. By a few extras as spares just in case (referenced to my post above). I believe I paid $0.57 each. I also use quad rings in the gearbox.... but that’s for another thread. :mrgreen:
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Can someone post a link to an example of the grease/oil gun and fitting that is appropriate to lube the swingarm on a 1974 Commando?
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nomadwarmachine said:
Don't worry about the correct fitting and gun. Screw in a modern grease zerk and use any common grease gun. IIRC, I didn't worry about drilling and tapping, the zerk pretty much self tapped into the swing arm cover. I'm certain you know this, but just in case, the recommended lube is heavyweight gear lube rather than grease. Most common grease guns will pump gear lube.
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Highly Reccommend if filling spindle from the side that the spindle oil holes be added in bush area down low or orginal holes opended up if in area the oil flows to bushes nicely. If opened up enough might even allow real grease to get to bushes and hang around a longish time and leave a mess or spindle to rust if negelected for one reason or another. More than wear factor its the rust factor that hurts spindles most. I went with zerks into bushes so a none issue on my Cdo's.
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Okay -- now I need to find a grease gun, 140W oil, and something called a "zerk."
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