"Goof-proof" Anti-Drain Valve (ironjohns)

That certainly looks like a rugged unit. If it goes wrong on the
road it would be easy to just jump the two wires and press on.
Not too expensive really. Small. Unobtrusive visually.

the rating looks good @ 10 amps ,12 volt , plenty for the job. My local autoparts store has one, $16.59. If it does give trouble at a later date, it is a mass produced item so you can get a new replacement switch just about anywhere. This may not be the case with a custom made switch.

Glen

worntorn said:

The contact info for AW Dove is at the bottom of page 4 in this thread
post56218.html?hilit=A.W%20Dove#p56218

There is a photo of the valve on page five of the thread. If appearance means anything, it looks very good. I know these have been in service for quite a number of years, couldnt find a single report of problems.

Glen

Click to expand...

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Maybe i overlooked something, but i clicked on that link to you posted (see quote) and its a thread from 2010. and theres multiple reports of failures, and many of the same issues being rehashed here. Some of the Dove valves have fallen apart,, theres even pictures

I did enjoy the account from one of the posters who rebuilt 5 pumps over the last 3 days (Norbsa53956?) and i agree completely with his statements.
The mystery of Norton manufacturing and tolerances DOES continue. He makes an excellent point that you should examine and rebuild your pump before starting up a machine that is new to you. Some pumps are complete rubbish straight from the factory.

I did contact this Iron John fellow,, I think listers here will get a real education here very soon. John doesnt seem very computer litterate but he has someone helping him and they are making a video.. they are doing testing of pumps and his valves with comparison tests with other setups.

How many of you have ever seen a Norton pump operating?,, truly operating under pressure? Im told oil is spewing out everywhere, might be a real eye opener. Im looking forward to seeing the video, nothing like seeing is believing

internetannoyance said:

worntorn said:

The contact info for AW Dove is at the bottom of page 4 in this thread
post56218.html?hilit=A.W%20Dove#p56218

There is a photo of the valve on page five of the thread. If appearance means anything, it looks very good. I know these have been in service for quite a number of years, couldnt find a single report of problems.

Glen

Click to expand...

------------------------------------------------------
Maybe i overlooked something, but i clicked on that link to you posted (see quote) and its a thread from 2010. and theres multiple reports of failures, and many of the same issues being rehashed here. Some of the Dove valves have fallen apart,, theres even pictures

Click to expand...

I think perhaps you are confusing the Dove valve with a faulty batch of the Al Miles/CNW valves (the ones in the photos) which fell apart?

wet-sump-valve-recall-t5846.html

I don't think it was the Dove valves that failed, rather the spring/ball Miles type. I can't see why a brass ball valve would fail so easily, anything is possible. I wouldn't use one of those spring type valves, but each to his/her own. After seeing some of these momentary push switches, I think mine could be improved greatly, and easily.

Dave
69S

Right, it is as LAB and Dave point out. The Dove valves are mentioned as an alternative to the problematic valves being discussed.
As in my earlier post, there is a photo of the Dove Valve on page five of that thread. It looks like it would take half an hour with a large ball peen hammer to get that one to come in half!

Dave, Im picking up one of the cole hersee m-608 sealed switches this aft.
wont get time to play with it and the valve before we head off to Ca. for two weeks, but will post photos. It looks like the right item, it is normally closed, on with plunger depressed, sealed, 10 amp rating, sixteen bucks, available at any auto parts store.
Glen

Glen,
Your 650 SS looks like it's the patient for the anti-drain valve implant. Does that mean that your MkIII doesn't have any problem with wet sumping? I like the idea of having the check-valve between the pump and the cover. AMR in Arizona does the modification on pre MkIII engines for $70. Looks good, depending on the execution and durability. Anybody got one?

http://www.amr-of-tucson.com/nortech.html

Just thinking outside the box out loud here and crying out loud on cost.
These may not flow a topped out Cdo.

Vacuum opened valves
http://www.pingelonline.com/powerflo_9050.htm


http://elescooterparts.com/parts/FuelVa ... TypeE.html

rpatton, the MK3 is really quite good on this score. It takes a couple of months to wet sump. On the other hand, I left it over the winter and thought I could get away without draining the sump, blew the mainseal instead. So it is the 650ss and one of the Vincents that are most incontinent, the others aren't so bad.

Glen

rpatton said:

Glen,
Your 650 SS looks like it's the patient for the anti-drain valve implant. Does that mean that your MkIII doesn't have any problem with wet sumping? I like the idea of having the check-valve between the pump and the cover. AMR in Arizona does the modification on pre MkIII engines for $70. Looks good, depending on the execution and durability. Anybody got one?

http://www.amr-of-tucson.com/nortech.html

Click to expand...

I guess the AMR modification, tested by CNW, isn't 'goof-proof' either:

Re: Anti-Sump Failure

by CNW » Mon Mar 08, 2010 11:55 am

We used the modification that AMR offers for many years. The first 30 bikes or so have it installed in the timing cover. These were done by another guy, I cant think of his name, that later gave the rights to AMR so they could offer the modification.

I found the results very inconsistent with some bikes not sumping a bit and other draining down to the crank in a very short time. This was frustrating since I didnt know until the customers started reporting back to me after they took delivery of the machines. I know that some people dont mind the wetsumping but I dont want to tell my customers that they have to drain the oil out of the crank and pour it back into the oil tank before going on a ride.

Along with the check ball and spring mod AMR does, I think you need the oil pump mod that AMR also performs if anti-sumping is the objective. I have both and am very pleased. The idea of putting something between the oil tank and the pump always left me skittish. Although, I do think Iron John's valve is probably pretty much reliable. If I didn't already have the AMR mods I would be inclined to use John's valve.

I picked up the Cole Hersee switch. It is a very high quality item, made in USA, solid brass body, sealed beautifully. Almost too good for the money, but I won't complain!

Glen

Thought I’d chime in here!
But first - Hi there everybody, this is my first post. Haven’t done much on my Commando for a while but love to keep up with all that’s going on Commando wise so visit here when I get chance.

Several years back I got thinking of a solution for my wet sumping issues which occurred when I left my 850 for a few weeks without use. Came up with the same solution being discussed here. My first thoughts were to make one similar to the one Iron John is now doing keeping it very simple but it was surprisingly hard to find an ideal switch so well done to all those who have. I also felt cosmetically it was not that appealing so a couple of years ago I decided to make the valve switch shown in the pics. I intended to produce and market the valve as I felt there could be a large order book. I done a redesign to make it more simple using s/s ball bearings for the switch but didn’t get round to making it to see if it was better. Unfortunately I didn’t find time to finish this project off before others have so feel a bit disappointed with myself but in a way also happy that there might be an ideal valve on the horizon if perhaps CNW or others get on board. Hope you can get the idea of my design in the photos and maybe Matt can take it a stage further for us all to enjoy.

On another note my nephew needed a project for a apprentice toolmaker college exam. He used the issues of wet sumping in British bikes and done CAD drawings of the valve design and ended up with a double distinction! Yay!!











Cheers. Mick

Mick, that is some very neat design work you have done. It makes all of the other efforts (including what I plan to do) look rudimentary.
Please keep at it! I can imagine you have a lot of hours into the Mk 1 version.

Glen

I ordered one of those Cole switches off ebay today. Everyplace else was a killer with the shipping. We'll see what it's like.

Dave
69S

I found them in stock at both of the local auto parts stores, decent price too.

Glen

@ Spooky - great job, your valve looks great!

... I'd buy one!

for all us sale of the anti-drain valves now is ad coppens po box 2039 salem connecticut 06420-3603 telephone 860-859-0866 his e mail is ajs4616@yahoo.com just don't have time to do the sales and gave it to a distributor thanks iron john

worntorn said:

I'm making some of these this week, along the lines of the one in the photo. Will post a photo and parts info once they are done. That way if you are like me and need a bunch of these things, you can make your own.

Glen

Click to expand...

hi new to this group and i see glen u have found a switch and valve and you wear going to put some together i have not seen what you have done yet you had said it would be done in a week and you would post them for us to see it's over a month now i what to see what u have come up with so i can do the same i like to tinker with thing but i do not what to re invent the wheel if some one is all ready doing it you must have forgotten to post the pictures you had said it was going to look like iron johns valve hope you can post the pictures very soon Sheldon

I got the cole hersee switch and it is rather large and may work, but it certainly wouldn't be elegant. I used a micro-switch and mounted it on the fitting so the valve trips it in the open position, turning on the ignition circuit. I think IJ's is still the most elegant and probably the best option at the moment. That said, I'm still using my micro-switch arrangement. I'm just in no rush right now.

Dave
69S