Going Racing

storm42 said:

Was sorting the bike for the up coming race at The Three Sisters this weekend and amongst the jobs on the list was new tires. I am changing from the Continentals I have used all season to Avons. When I picked up the Avon front with the Continental, I thought it was a lot lighter, out came the scales and the Avon is 1080gm lighter, that is the best part of 2.4 lbs in real money. This has got to help my change of direction issues.

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Bugger... there goes my advantage that I’d hoped you’d not cottoned on to ..!

If you are using Avons you need the 90/90 AM26 to improve steering, and much as I hate to admit it, since I also use 130 rears on my Rickman, you would turn faster with a 110 rear!

There are two different things. One is the way the bike steers in response to your actions. The other is the way it tends to steer naturally as you ride around corners. With the latter, there are three choices. The bike can understeer and tend to run wide coming out. It can stay neutral. Or it can oversteer and tighten it's line, so it can be driven through and out of corners much faster. If your bike tends to run wide as you gas it when coming out of corners, it restricts you to the high line, which nearly everybody else uses. It is always better to go under, rather than over. I never worry about how quick a bike steers, it is where it goes naturally when you gas it hard when cranked over, which is important. That is determined by the yoke offset (trail) and the amount of squat you have at the rear. If you get the steering right, you will be much faster everywhere, as long as you don't get too smart. When I ride my bike, it is pretty much a brainless exercise. I squirt it in corners and let it do it's thing. The difference good steering makes is amazing.

The slowest corner on any race circuit is usually a hairpin bend. Ride into it while braking in the centre of the track and when halfway around gas the bike hard when cranked over. If you end up dragging the bike away from the outside edge of the bitumen, you are riding a bevel Ducati. That is who will be there on that line when you race.

Hi all
Thanks Steve Ralph for the good wishes. Had a fantastic weekend. Must admit I preffered the three day meeting to the two day event msv have forced on us (cost). Not as relaxed & with this being my first time out since last year doesnt help you get things fettled.
Travelling Friday night was a nightmare. M23 roadworks m25 car park
m1 roadworks. Red oil light flashing on the van half way into the journey! Oil degradation? Under eight thousand miles since the last service! Scarred the crap out of me. Two stops running with the heater on full at a steady fourty five miles an hour. I arrived after six hours beautifully poached. Stuff drink, set up the caravan & went to bed. Tried to arrange oil & filter on the van only to be told its a device light! or a sensor fault.
The bikes. All sailed through eligibility.
The North pissed petrol all over the floor! Petrol tap rubber has dried out & torn. My spare was to long & fouled the belmouths. A quick walk to Ken Hersham racing rewarded me with a brass one & rewarded Ken with thirty quid of my hard earned.
Missed practise & qualifying for the Weatcroft trophy. Didn't matter a jot but missing the track time hurt!
Had a really nice run from the back of the grid in my race. Forty first! Enjoyed watching the carnage as we were out with the fz600's. Well two yellow flag crashes later the red came out. I had seen one bike on fire so exited the grid when I saw the doctors car go out on track. They held them for ten minutes then called it a race. Lol I would never have been able to restart it!
My brothers zxr Kawasaki refused to start on the button. Ohh how we took the piss. He used the jump leads nothing. I suggested starter solenoid siezed. He put it on the van rollers & promptly shot off them backwards. Tried again. He shot of them again! Oops engines locked.
Turned out to be another petrol tap issue. Hydraulic lock. Plugs out, pumped the fuel out of the engine. Left it to dry out while we cleaned the plugs. Success! Off she went on the button.
Watch my brother & son in the parade. My brother clearly unhappy. When he came in he said it won't rev. Well a quick check of the oil level sight class confirmed my thoughts & showed us where the rest of the fuel was!!! Drain down filter of refill & all good again.
Well now it was my turn. Had a nice grid position of thirty first! Not smooth but fun & had a nice race with a v twinned J.a.p engined bike with a Manx frame & triple discs. Misfired on the last lap & I went to pull in when it cleared aah.

Sunday proved eventful as the weather closed in. We still had three races to run from Saturday before we could begin Sundays events. The decision was made to change the timetable! One race only, of nine laps. People were running round the paddock a few minutes before the sidecars were due to go out, telling them of the change! Well I didnt start the bike until the sidecars were on lap seven & poodle down to the holding area. Twenty five minutes later they were still dragging sidecars off the circuit. (Was it fuel or were the extra laps to much?) I kind of had the same thought in my head as they let us out. Rode down the start straight & the Interspan plug popped & in I coasted.
Well stuff that. At least I had the Weatcroft trophy race to go???
Cable tied the plug in.
Was given a grid position of "back of the grid" forty one again, courtesy of not doing qualifying. Now this event is something of an oddity as you all line up on the grid with your brolly dolly engines stopped!!! They then photograph & interview you. Well not me! He of the back of the grid. They then start you up & do the warm up lap. Again not me! I fail & end up being pushed off the circuit. However with the kind help of some lads in the pits with rollers I got started. Sally allowed me to start from the pit exit.
Well I was thrilled & relieved in equal measures. Not very thrilled you understand as being about a second a lap slower than the slowest qualifier, it's a bit gauling to watch them all sail past you into the first bend before you set off.
I really enjoyed myself riding smoothly for the first time all weekend. It was also a bonus for those in the stands who got to hear the glorious sounds of a big Commando being thrashed along, sound unimpeded by others.
Now I have to say hush my mouth! Because on here & on other forums I have been saying how belts are the bee's knees. Yep! start straight into fifth full chat & coast in.
Still the van got me home.

Chris

What it's all about. Me & my helper. Great family weekend. Fabulous.
All the best Chris

The more you race, the better you will become and the more sorted your bike will be. Never worry about the rain, just try to not become too tyre dependent. If you bike is right, it won't have great amounts of lean in corners, so you will ride faster even in the wet. If it rains when I am competing. I know I am in with a good chance of winning. I was brought up in the era of shit tyres and bikes which dropped a lot of oil. Modern road tyres are better than anything we ever had for racing. With most of the young guys, if they have not got grip, they are pretty much stuffed.

Fast Eddie said:

Bugger... there goes my advantage that I’d hoped you’d not cottoned on to ..!

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Weighed the back and not so much difference, just 336gms, 12oz, and thinking about the front, that has been on the bike since it was built so there must be quite a lot of the original weight left out on the tracks.

SteveA said:

If you are using Avons you need the 90/90 AM26 to improve steering, and much as I hate to admit it, since I also use 130 rears on my Rickman, you would turn faster with a 110 rear!

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I agree, but and there is always a but, the rims are too big for the smaller section tires.

It isn't the end of the world, it just is a bit more work on the go-kart tracks, and I don't really enjoy those, so I think I will leave things how they are and enjoy the stability on the longer tracks.

I went out on one of my toys the other night and despite the weight of said toy, it handles like a 250, it changes direction so quick compared to the Seeley that I almost ran onto the inside of a couple of corners until I got used to it again. Because of the power, I have made a ZZR1400 swing arm fit which gives me a bit more length for wheely control but I raised the rear to keep some kind of flickability.

I could play with the Seeley like this but I think the best thing to do would be pick my tracks, or roads.

SteveA said:

If you are using Avons you need the 90/90 AM26 to improve steering, and much as I hate to admit it, since I also use 130 rears on my Rickman, you would turn faster with a 110 rear!

Click to expand...

The toy.

acotrel said:

There are two different things. One is the way the bike steers in response to your actions. The other is the way it tends to steer naturally as you ride around corners. With the latter, there are three choices. The bike can understeer and tend to run wide coming out. It can stay neutral. Or it can oversteer and tighten it's line, so it can be driven through and out of corners much faster. If your bike tends to run wide as you gas it when coming out of corners, it restricts you to the high line, which nearly everybody else uses. It is always better to go under, rather than over. I never worry about how quick a bike steers, it is where it goes naturally when you gas it hard when cranked over, which is important. That is determined by the yoke offset (trail) and the amount of squat you have at the rear. If you get the steering right, you will be much faster everywhere, as long as you don't get too smart. When I ride my bike, it is pretty much a brainless exercise. I squirt it in corners and let it do it's thing. The difference good steering makes is amazing.

Click to expand...

I think I prefer it to be quite neutral.

Chris said:

My brothers zxr Kawasaki refused to start on the button. Ohh how we took the piss. He used the jump leads nothing. I suggested starter solenoid siezed. He put it on the van rollers & promptly shot off them backwards. Tried again. He shot of them again! Oops engines locked.
Turned out to be another petrol tap issue. Hydraulic lock. Plugs out, pumped the fuel out of the engine. Left it to dry out while we cleaned the plugs. Success! Off she went on the button.
Watch my brother & son in the parade. My brother clearly unhappy. When he came in he said it won't rev. Well a quick check of the oil level sight class confirmed my thoughts & showed us where the rest of the fuel was!!! Drain down filter of refill & all good again.
Well now it was my turn. Had a nice grid position of thirty first! Not smooth but fun & had a nice race with a v twinned J.a.p engined bike with a Manx frame & triple discs. Misfired on the last lap & I went to pull in when it cleared aah.

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Hi Chris,

Sounds like a good weekend, I would like to have been there for the Keystone cops starter roller episode.

I hadn't heard about this event, was it run by the CRMC? I did think of coming to spectate but as usual the bike needs sorting for the coming weekend.

How old was the belt? I carry a spare now.

A turbo charged green Kawa with a top box, got to be a visual oxymoron or something. Or is that the wheelie ballast box.
By the way I finally got the 750 Mk3 done, put it on the dyno for jetting, it's putting out 64 bhp. Too late for this year, bit of track time for set up in what remains of summer, then to the races in 2020.

Steves said:

A turbo charged green Kawa with a top box, got to be a visual oxymoron or something. Or is that the wheelie ballast box.
By the way I finally got the 750 Mk3 done, put it on the dyno for jetting, it's putting out 64 bhp. Too late for this year, bit of track time for set up in what remains of summer, then to the races in 2020.

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Got to have somewhere for the waterproofs.

You would get an entry with the BHR at Cadwell in September for the 750, where better for a pre season shakedown.

I do tour on the turbo.

Hi Ralph

Yes Crmc. It's the go to event each year. Well unless we get to play at Oulton Park! Both fast flowing tracks.
Cadwell is nearly as good. Then they added that silly chicane.
That turbo is lovely. You do like your missiles.
I enjoyed three sisters, another very different circuit.

Chris
O belt must be a decade old! I also carry a spare lol

storm42 said:

I think I prefer it to be quite neutral.

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Neutral is good, but if the bike oversteers you get the urge and the confidence to ride it much quicker. Even if you have neutral steering the bike will usually tend to run wide if you gas it hard coming out of corners. As soon as it does that, you will go slower. The trick is to brake up into the corners while cranked over, then get straight back onto the gas without rolling in the middle of the corner. Most guys roll for about 10 yards in the middle of every corner at fairly constant speed. If you are not doing that and they are, you will be quicker. With my bike, I brake about a third of the way into a tight corners, then immediately gas it hard. The bike does the rest. This is something I did not discover until too late in life. I never knew why the blokes on good bikes were so much faster, when my own bike had more go. With my old bike, I only ever outrode a whole race field on one occasion, and that was a massive effort.

Chris said:

Hi Ralph

Yes Crmc. It's the go to event each year. Well unless we get to play at Oulton Park! Both fast flowing tracks.
Cadwell is nearly as good. Then they added that silly chicane.
That turbo is lovely. You do like your missiles.
I enjoyed three sisters, another very different circuit.

Chris
O belt must be a decade old! I also carry a spare lol

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Hi Chris,

I made the decision to ride with the BHR this year as it looked to me that the CRMC might be a bit too professional, as in there seems to be teams that have professional riders and now you say they have grid interviews, sounds a bit unpleasant, and if you have to sit on the grid with a dead engine then a helper with the starter is mandatory which is not always an option.

For me the racing is the show, and grid walks and rider interviews just get in the way of racing. Would they have managed to fit all the races in on the Saturday if they scrapped the faff?

I see riders at the BHR events that have moved there because they are fed up with having to compete with the more modern Jap stuff, and whilst I understand the perception of classic racing is with the riders and therefor, those of us that choose to race older styled bike are a dying breed. The guys that are coming into racing were brought up on later Jap bikes and therefor they are the classics for them.

Times change and to survive the CRMC must move with the times which means OW01s RC30s, and the like will soon be the bikes to beat. It is sad but in my lifetime this is the second time I have seen our bikes outclassed and retired.

Which is good for the BHR as they are still running the older stuff for us old duffers.

Missiles are good, too much power is just enough.

Your spare belt, how old is that?

acotrel said:

Neutral is good, but if the bike oversteers you get the urge and the confidence to ride it much quicker. Even if you have neutral steering the bike will usually tend to run wide if you gas it hard coming out of corners. As soon as it does that, you will go slower. The trick is to brake up into the corners while cranked over, then get straight back onto the gas without rolling in the middle of the corner. Most guys roll for about 10 yards in the middle of every corner at fairly constant speed. If you are not doing that and they are, you will be quicker. With my bike, I brake about a third of the way into a tight corners, then immediately gas it hard. The bike does the rest. This is something I did not discover until too late in life. I never knew why the blokes on good bikes were so much faster, when my own bike had more go. With my old bike, I only ever outrode a whole race field on one occasion, and that was a massive effort.

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Your are not wrong but my bike is good and in the hands of some, would be a championship winner. I spend a lot of time off throttle and I know I will get a lot faster by learning how to race rather than riding like I do on the road, I am not saying the bike couldn't be improved, in fact it gets changed after every outing, but for me the lap times will improve more with experience rather than bike set up. It is all good fun though.

Conti 110 rear (actually it is a front! but used on the rear) ideally fits on a 3" rim!

My rear rim is around 3.2", I think it will work if I go to Contis front and rear.

I think someone needs to explain classic period rim sizes to Conti!

Conti 130 won't fit because it is 80 profile not 70 like Avon or Heidenau. Heidenau 130 is narrower than the Avon, so no need to cut it. Now if someone did a 120!

With the tight tracks in France the narrower rear might be a benefit, everywhere else it just seems to demand more physical effort.....of course it is in France where they have longer races!