Going Racing

acotrel said:

You should not be jetted rich enough to have a plug go short through carbon. My ignition operates through a double ended Honda coil. The only time it has failed was when I let the bike stand for a long time without running it, and it refused to start until I changed the plugs.

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It was a long time ago and was down to broken rings, so the carbon was oil related.

storm42 said:

It was a long time ago and was down to broken rings, so the carbon was oil related.

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When the carbon on the plug is oil related, it usually looks shiny rather than like powder.

So this afternoon after work thought I would continue to try and figure out what is wrong. Put the bike to the roller and it wouldn't start. Made a cuppa tea and decided to keep it simple. Had a rummage in the spark plug draw, found a couple of random plugs, one new one almost new. The size was correct so no danger of conflict with valves. Well they lit the fire straight away. Ran it a couple of mins and then put correct plugs back in, bike ran no problem. Put a big fan up against the engine and ran it for about 10 minutes. The problem reoccurred, the tachometer sudden a goes weird and reads in reverse and off the scale I.e. Zero or less (Smiths electronic). The bike either idles at 2000 and hunts as opposed to 1000 and/or sounds like it's on 1.5 cylinders, (total loss ignition).
I changed plugs twice and restarted, same problem, changed battery same problem. Let bike cooL down, started and it ran perfectly. Check for heat in the coil, there was none.
Tomorrow I am going to try a 3rd (new) battery, I need to wire up a spare anyway. I have a baffle in, will take that out. I will see if it will start on the plugs that are in at the moment. Or whether I have same (plug) problem as today.

I know 90% of electrical problems are fuel related. But the carbs are clean and have just been set up on the dyno.
I will by tomorrow have checked or rechecked battery, plugs, ECU and wiring, exhaust, valve clearances. The coil is running cool but probably needs a check, the trigger is as mentioned the prime suspect as it is close to the exhaust and I think is getting cooked, or the maybe the plugs are giving up for some reason, but I think I checked them by changing and the problem didn't go away u til the engine had cooled. However I just might be unable to see the wood for the trees. Any ideas appreciated.
It starts and runs normally (with a plug issue), then after 10 mins runs bad, in a nutshell!

I would be swapping things out now. The cost of components pale into insignificance compared to a lost race meeting. If the new ignition/pickup/coil turns out to be good then it can be floated on ebay later.

Pickups will handle a lot of heat, but can fail so maybe start there but I know time is tight, so I would order the control unit too, could you get a sale or return on unused kit?

Could you put an ammeter in circuit with the ignitions battery and see if there is a drop in current draw when the fault occurs?

If you believe you have cooked the ignition pick-up, you should probably replace it. A problem which occurs after a period of smooth running is usually fuel related - blocked tank breather causing a vacuum in the fuel tank. If it is your ignition system, you might find somebody who has an engine analyser and feed the spark into a CRO. It is possible that your battery is near the end of it's life and you only get full current for a limited time.

Steve
Years ago I ran a Daytona that started & did about two laps before misfiring & buggering about. Sent the Interspan back to be tested, all good. Swapped the pick up, then the rotor, third meeting it was still at it. I always carried a Boyer coils battery etc & bunged that at it. Sorted! I went through the Interspan again & again. Sent the unit back to Fred, still pronounced good. Sent him the rotor & pick up, all good. Swapped the complete unit & it still did it!!!
Turned out to be the wire to the pick up. It had been crushed, probably loading the bike in the van. Once it, or the engine was hot enough it interrupted the signal.

Good luck chasing your problem but swap the system for something else! Always nice to be able to point a finger at something. Chris

So I rigged up a bit of Honda as a heat shield (left over bits). I think it improved the time before the gremlin appeared. Anyway, hoping to meet Martin from Minnovation and Derek from RTD this weekend at Snetterton, feel confident of a solution. All of you racing this weekend have a good one and stay safe.

When you first start racing any bike, bits fall off and things bugger-up for a while. Then everything becomes lovely. In a minute you will be a winner, if you keep at it.

One thing which is worth doing, is to let a really experienced fast rider ride your bike - then fix what they complain about. When you first start, you tend to accept what you should not - and ride around your problems. A good bike makes a good rider.

Had a heat related failure on the Nourish with an inter span ignition and pick up. Proved it out post race meet with the trigger rotor in a vertical mill and a heat gun on the thing. Ran perfect until heat applied.

The BHR ran it's last meet of this year on the weekend of the 28th / 29th September and the weather cooperated in the same way the EU is helping the UK leave Europe.

I started the weekend with a chance of winning one of the championships I entered. The odds were long but there was a chance.

Three races ago, I was leading both the Novice and the Woodlands oils championships, but then I decided to go and play at Cadwell with the Beezumph guys and missed the round at Pembrey, that lowered me down to 4th in the Woodlands and 3rd in the Novice. I would say that I didn't really have much interest in the championship, it was more a case of mild amusement that I was up the pointy end in my first year of racing at the grand young age of 62.

Then came The Three Sisters meet, didn't like the track, never got above third gear and that was with my lowest gearing on it. It rained, and whilst I did the four Woodlands races, I didn't bother with the Novice or the over fifties race, I wasn't having fun and the Novice and over 50s races are just £20 apiece extras to the rather more expensive main event for me. So still in third in the Novice but more of a points gap. But back to 2nd in the Woodlands and only 22 points adrift. Tony Jimenez was leading the way but had a fall and broke his ankle. It did cross my mind that he might not turn up for the last meeting at Cadwell.

Cadwell soon come around and Tony was there, not a problem for me as like I said, not really bothered about championships. And anyway second was possible and I would be more than happy with that in my first year.

So the first race, miserable weather and a mostly damp track. I get a 4th in class and 8 points, but where is Tony, not in the results, it turns out that his oil tank had split and he couldn't get it repaired and so was out of the meeting.

You know that championship I wasn't bothered about!!! Bollocks.

All of a sudden I was only 14 points adrift and three races left.

The next race was the novice and all of a sudden it became a practice session for the Woodlands, I finished 2nd to the eventual Novice championship winner, he was on full wets so now the confidence is rising. Then as I was exiting the track Georgina was waiting and waved me back to the holding area, I was out in the next race, the over 50s, 3rd in that race and on the pace, of everybody but Mike Kemp.

Because of the weather and late running of the meeting the Novice and over 50s had been moved forwards because they can only run them on the Saturday and they were making sure they happened, more practice .

Then it starts to go wrong. The Novice and the over 50s, on a normal day would have been after my second Woodlands race, because they needed to run them on Saturday ie no chance of moving them to Sunday, it pushed back the Woodlands and we ran out of time so it was moved to Sunday.

Sunday came and the weather had developed a bad attitude, no matter, bring it on says I.

Anyway, back to that championship I was not bothered about. I had worked out that all I had to do was finish two more races and I was champion. But and it was a big but, Mike Kemp, totally on it this weekend and winning all his races and the reality was that the best I could hope for would be forth in class and that meant that we would end up on the same points after the next three races and because he wins and I don't, he would be champion. No problem with that really as champions should win and not rely on consistency and reliability.

Woodlands race two, and third in class and more to the point Mike was beaten into second, game on, the championship, that I was in no way bothered about was back on. Only 4 points behind the non competing Tony and with a more than real chance of keeping Mike behind me. Roll on race 3 and 4.

The meeting was being worked through despite the weather and we had got to race 24 (the race before my next one) before the weather went full on female, and the meeting was cancelled.

I would have gone out and raced, but there was a ACU official there and the BHR took the right decision to cancel. To be honest it was that bad they would have cancelled if the official hadn't been there, in general the BHR run a very good meeting.

So, year one, 29 races on 5 different UK tracks with one win, and 4 races in 2 different road races on the continent.

3rd in the Novice championship and 2nd in the Woodland oils championship.

I'm happy. Roll on next year.

Great read, congrats on your standing. Bet you'll be in it to win it next year. None of this messing about. Cj

cjandme said:

Great read, congrats on your standing. Bet you'll be in it to win it next year. None of this messing about. Cj

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Thanks Cj, I am too old for such thoughts of winning really, a championship, all the rounds, don't break down and don't fall off, then maybe. Race wins!! not good enough, the guys in front of me in class are quite a way in front, and age is against me.

Has the storm hit you yet?

Before I built the Seeley 850, I won one race in 12 years and that was on somebody else's bike - a Suzuki Cobra. I raced the Seeley at Mount Gambier in about 2001 after it had sat idle for about 20 years, and came home with two trophies. A good bike makes a good rider. - Never race a bike which is of smaller capacity than the race class allows. I used to race my 500cc short stroke Triton in Allpowers C grade races against two-strokes and Z900 Kawasakis - and still did OK. - But WHY would anyone do that sort of stupidity ?