Fullauto Cylinder Head

acotrel · Jul 10, 2016

Let's start with the simple stuff ? Just for the exercise - try to develop the algorithm which converts degrees of crankshaft rotation to piston distance from top dead centre. It's a simple problem and the answer is very useful when porting two-strokes. When I did it years ago, I had use of a DEC PDP8L computer running Focal language which was sort of like BasicA. These days you can run Python Language on your PC
When you run a simulation programme, you are using software which somebody else has developed. So you are often a bigger step away from reality

acotrel · Jul 10, 2016

Python Language :

https://www.python.org/about/gettingstarted/

acotrel · Jul 10, 2016

Perhaps it would be practicable to fit a large square plate across the front of the bike with a load cell behind it. The ride around a circuit into the breeze doing data-logging ?

acotrel · Jul 11, 2016

In one of my jobs, we used to mount large rocket motors on gimbals with a load cell mounted on the front pushing into a buttress. It was pants-filling stuff

NKN · Jul 11, 2016

SteveA said:
Dyno figures for a cylinder head will of no good to you at all.....

You produce dyno figures for an individual engine, with a given and matching set of components and ancilliaries, and still dyno figures will differ from build to build, and day to day and dyno to dyno.

Today, the Fullauto head is the best cylinder head you will buy for a Commando based engine...absolutey end of. Because for one, your other option will have been abused in some way in it's 40 plus years, and it wasn't as good as a Fullauto even when it came out of the factory. We all know this, the bitching is about wether it is worth it to you. Your decision.

You are free to fit it as it comes, or modify for your application. As it comes in the box, it will outperform your 40 year old head.

Dyno figures should not be part of your buying decision. Quality and life, versus a notion of originality if that is important to you, traded with cost and available budget should be your basis. But beware that putting new life in your old head may eat up more budget than you had imagined.

I just wish that those of you who haven't bought one would stop giving your opinion on something you are not qualified to comment on until you have installed and used one.

Every time Fullauto is mentioned we go down this rabbit hole. Please stop it, and lets support Ken in his endeavours and help him keep doing what he does, and maybe doing even more neat stuff.

One very satisfied customer.

Just my 2 cents...

And what if dyno testing wasn't the best test to do? Hmm?

No Nortons in there, but some news from guys who know a little about adding power to an engine...

https://www.rbracing-rsr.com/orcadyno.htm

Fullauto · Jul 11, 2016

Maybe the point is being lost here. The heads were manufactured as a replacement part, not a performance enhancement. What other replacement part gets dyno tested to establish it's worth?

Any takers?

NKN · Jul 11, 2016

Fullauto said:
Maybe the point is being lost here. The heads were manufactured as a replacement part, not a performance enhancement. What other replacement part gets dyno tested to establish it's worth?

Any takers?

You're the smartest :wink:

Fast Eddie · Jul 11, 2016

Fullauto said:
Maybe the point is being lost here. The heads were manufactured as a replacement part, not a performance enhancement. What other replacement part gets dyno tested to establish it's worth?

Any takers?

And as such I doubt anyone would argue with you Ken.

I rather suspect that Mr Cummings accidentally ignited this one when he said "The Fullauto Cylinder Head is the best available bolt-on performance upgrade you can do for your Norton"...

Any takers you ask? Well I did offer sir...!

splatt · Jul 11, 2016

My biggest problem with my FULLAUTO HEAD is I cant bloody see it yet , I have a horrible feeling the postal service own it or worse, customs at $25 a day

Holmeslice · Jul 11, 2016

Fast Eddie said:
...
I rather suspect that Mr Cummings accidentally ignited this one when he said "The Fullauto Cylinder Head is the best available bolt-on performance upgrade you can do for your Norton"...

And I stand by my statement. I will add a bit of nuance to say "a well-ported head" is the easiest way to bolt on performance to your Norton. And the Fullauto head IS a well-ported head, straight out of the box, thanks to Ken and Jim Comstock's development.

While some here will natter on and on and on about "dyno numbers or it didn't happen", this is screwball; Of course there are numbers - before and after - and back up my assertion. Otherwise we wouldn't be running the heads. But they won't be posted to make a point, and wouldn't mean anything to anyone anyway as they are numbers used for our race tuning benchmarks only.

Perhaps on the next street bike we build with a FullAuto head on the punchlist we can take some before and after pulls and post them here, and would gladly do so.

acotrel · Jul 11, 2016

I hate Fullauto heads simply because I haven't got one. If Kenny Cummins says they are better than a standard head, that is enough recommendation for me. No performance improvement is ever proven to be effective until it is used in anger.

Rohan · Jul 11, 2016

Fullauto said:
Maybe the point is being lost here. The heads were manufactured as a replacement part, not a performance enhancement. What other replacement part gets dyno tested to establish it's worth?

Any takers?

Cams.....

The head and cam being the heart of the performance.

I'd second fasteddy's comment about the "performance upgrade" comment by Kenny.
And now he'd going to bury it. !!

P.S. someone else who knows their stuff commented on the Desktop Dyno 5 sim stuff yesterday, on my asking for independent comments. Somewhat irrelevant here (and inflammatory here too it seems !) so pm me for his verbatim comments. I'll copy LAB too.

Nater_Potater · Jul 11, 2016

acotrel said:
No performance improvement is ever proven to be effective until it is used in anger.

I think that's my new tagline!

Rohan · Jul 11, 2016

I'd have said thats a part of life !!
Which maybe we take for granted...

When cavemen/women first sharpened sticks or banged rocks together or tied furs on their frosty feet,
the 1st thing they wooda done was go out and test them....

Dances with Shrapnel · Jul 11, 2016

Nater_Potater said:
acotrel said:

No performance improvement is ever proven to be effective until it is used in anger.

Click to expand...

I think that's my new tagline!

I'll second that.

Apparently, there's a new simulation out there titled Armchair Pontificate 4.0. It is a hybrid version that morphs and is in a perpetual state of beta testing. It has a unique feature where no matter what the input, there's garbage out. There is only one copy out there.

Fullauto · Jul 11, 2016

Rohan said:
I'd have said thats a part of life !!
Which maybe we take for granted...

When cavemen/women first sharpened sticks or banged rocks together or tied furs on their frosty feet,
the 1st thing they wooda done was go out and test them....

I test mine every day. Saying they are untested is not true. Just because you test on a dyno doesn't make that the ultimate form of testing. I mean let's face it, are dyno results the reason you ride a Norton? If they were, you wouldn't touch a Norton with a barge pole. You'd be on some super duper plastic clad whizzbang rocketship, that doesn't give an ounce of the pleasure that riding a Norton does.

Rohan · Jul 11, 2016

True.

But as fasteddy sez, it was those "best performance upgrade" words that fired our interest here.
Otherwise, its a storm in a teacup...

And there is a not insignificant $$s attached to these.
If the head gives more bang for buck than a cam, so to speak, be interesting/relevant/useful to know that ?
Both together even more so ?

Little snippets of knowledge, little snippets of knowledge....

Fullauto · Jul 11, 2016

If that's the case, why dump it on me to prove someone else's point? If it's a storm in a teacup, then the tropical low is centred around you. And, can I just say, Eddie, that would have been the most expensive dyno test of all time! For me. You know what I'm talking about.

Fast Eddie · Jul 11, 2016

Fullauto said:
If that's the case, why dump it on me to prove someone else's point? If it's a storm in a teacup, then the tropical low is centred around you. And, can I just say, Eddie, that would have been the most expensive dyno test of all time! For me. You know what I'm talking about.

If that's your recollection Ken then fair enough.

I say it wouldn't have cost you a cent...

swooshdave · Jul 11, 2016

I keep hoping this thread will die.

You have someone who is spending every cent he has to make something he doesn't have to and two yahoos disparaging him about it.

It's so sad and says nothing good about those two.

Fullauto Cylinder Head

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