Ok then <> since this post has decayed into the life/death stuff such as riding as if on rails or jumping the tracks.
Unread postby Rohan » Sat May 04, 2013 6:17 pm
Wasn't the P11 a dual purpose steed, more or less - it came with dirt tires new even ?
The P11's were king of the hill for a while there and could gotten in street or off road race equipped tire and forks etc. Its still hard to top their torque to mass hits where it mattes in maneuvering below 100.
Two tires still in traction effect is fine until leaning past 45' then tis merely the launch phase to really get on with Ms Peel. Down to 45' its a pure power to weight and resistance contest not a handling strain tester. Below 45' the rules change with speed and power and wind and pilot position and bike CoG and tire width and road texture.
I fully agree drifting is for the birds or parking lot stunts, though its just natural to do in some turns as lines ya up for the exit the fastest to then pop up and hook up out of there. Alan this seems to be the limit you are describing on your Seeley that ends up pointing right - after exit to nail it more w/o any pilot effort but to set up the initial turn and hang on grinning at the wonder of it.
Getting off to one side does indeed allow same turn radius w/o further bike lean. But shoot I always want to lean further till no room for knee tight on tank or foot in folded up peg. The other thing I found wrong for me to hang off is I get going too fast to have time to change sides and the change of CoG and slight let off of load of pilot on bike upset the frame for a jitter that can escalate like the elites losing it. Besides I've no mass in my ass at'tall w/o a wallet and clip knife. If I get out of pure drag racer locked in back centered posture its to get ontop of the bike to move CoG closer in and more directly down on rear tire, as by then the rear thrust and lean has extended forks to limits and taken a lot of the traction effect away. But that just for going fairly slowly on THE Gravel, pasture or tarmac. When I let Peel's hair out we are locked together like lovers doing it doggie style. Peel does all the work though so I can just lay back enjoying it with just a twist of the wrist to urge her on.
Rising height works the best for lean fouling - witness the elites with pilot sitting like horse jockey's on tall stance animals. But if ya make bike too tall the extended out CoG of pilot hanging way off can suddenly lever the bike completely horizontal, swoosheroo right out from under. Peel will not do that with me centered on her, she will just drift as same angle w/o any more pilot effort, which is one thing I now know a really neutral handling bike should do.
No more effort to force down than to lift up and no effort to stay at what ever lean set. I do have to stablize the bars when drift or slides start but its even side/side short fast loads I don't need no stinking steering damper for, as those little short sharp reversals are the life saving automatic compensations flapping through compliant non rebounding isolastics harmlessly. My SV and the Ninja tend to trip down>increase angle with loss of traction, which drives forks and pilot bonkers. So when the sports bikes loss traction trying to turn sharper they go down while Peel just widens the radius, as long as I don't transition into faster handling phases, so I see drifting as boring to dangerous state to stay in. NOT TRYING to turn sharper is what you see in the video dramas, but still a faster way around in that loose sate, as hehe, they can't hook up sharper loads so do the next best thing.
Here's the low down on what I've found for my sharpest turning no matter the cylce - as every cycle has its roll speed to be able to lean over to max and to turn forks to max and to take power hook up to max, and there is no better forward hook up than bolt upright or for braking too, I brake upright straight toward inner edge of turn but only to slow enough to be on WOT before any leaning begins to shoot pass the trail braking zone of others, straight on till most open long section of turn comes into view, then toss it over, letting off throttle some if bike wants to fall over too far which of course hooks up a bit more acceleration by wheel momentum than just prior and helps lifts bike back upright by a hi side action thats lined us up to drag race towards next braking need or in longish sweepers - no brakes just another sharp as can be facet. To me the second worse state of a cycle is long held fixed leans on increasing power. The first is braking with any lean or fork turn. I later learned this is how the 125 guys on pointy tires do their turns too expect they can't jump rails.
Above covers my rolls but not pitch and yaw handling.
