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Follower scar oil tests (2018)
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How do we go about contributing?
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Copy and paste this to your address bar
paypal.me/comnoz/XXXX
Replace the X's with the dollar amount, then hit enter and it will take you to my paypal site.
Or there will be a donate button up soon. Jim
rvich
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Jim,
Does paypal charge a fee for using paypal.me?
I sent money using your email address and selected "sending money to a friend" so there was no fee. I assume you got it!
Russ
PS - I have to admit I did not send four digits as per the XXXX in your example.
Does paypal charge a fee for using paypal.me?
I sent money using your email address and selected "sending money to a friend" so there was no fee. I assume you got it!
Russ
PS - I have to admit I did not send four digits as per the XXXX in your example.
So if the oil temp is kept around 220-230, the VR1 has good film strength, higher than either of the Mobil 1s or the Royal Purple XPR.
Since its conventional, it makes sense that it is higher friction than the synthetics.
What I've been seeing with it is very little wear in the engines based on the lack of magnetic plug filings (over 60,000 miles on VR1on the 47 Vincent) plus one engine pulled down for balancing where everything looked happy.
I've got a fair bit of VR1 on hand to use up. Will do so, but maybe change to some other oil going forward, especially if something really stands out as excellent.
Glen
Since its conventional, it makes sense that it is higher friction than the synthetics.
What I've been seeing with it is very little wear in the engines based on the lack of magnetic plug filings (over 60,000 miles on VR1on the 47 Vincent) plus one engine pulled down for balancing where everything looked happy.
I've got a fair bit of VR1 on hand to use up. Will do so, but maybe change to some other oil going forward, especially if something really stands out as excellent.
Glen
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I know when I used Vr1, the only problem I had was it was 100% oxidized in about 1000 miles in my Norton. That was according to Blackwells report. I didn't use it very long because of that.
It is pretty much impossible to keep the oil inside the motor below 230 degrees when the barrel and head temp are 3 or 400 degrees.
I am testing VR1 synthetic right now. Not looking very good with the first spin.
But I doubt that anything is going to outdo the MPT. It is pretty incredible.
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Yes, I got it , thanks.
Yes, Paypal does charge a fee for domestic with paypal/me
Of course paypal will complain if there are too many payments from friends.
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SteveA
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Well it still looks like the Motul 300V 20W60 Le Mans is a really good choice readily available in Europe. Thanks for that.
Just to point out that the Mobil 1 15w50 auto parts store oil and the motorcycle specific Mobil 1 Racing 15w50 4T would seem to be different oils.
But I don't have any at the moment and I am not sure I expect dramatically different results. I would probably still use it in my SR500 Yamaha engine, but will probably go native and use just Motul products for ease of access. I am already usng their gearbox oil in my TTi box.
Just to point out that the Mobil 1 15w50 auto parts store oil and the motorcycle specific Mobil 1 Racing 15w50 4T would seem to be different oils.
But I don't have any at the moment and I am not sure I expect dramatically different results. I would probably still use it in my SR500 Yamaha engine, but will probably go native and use just Motul products for ease of access. I am already usng their gearbox oil in my TTi box.
SteveA
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That will be great for the none IT contingent[/QUOTE]
Plus 1. I seem to have missed the donate instructions anyway!
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Motul 300V LeMans has a TBN number of 8.25mg.
This high base number suggests the ability to handle high acid loads from extended use.
Most motorcycle oils have a TBN number between 6 and 7.
TBN generally ranges from 6–80 mg KOH/g in modern lubricants, 7–10 mg KOH/g for general internal combustion engine use and 10–15 mg KOH/g for diesel engine operations
TBN conflicts with friction modifiers. Most ester based oils can have a reasonable TBN number and still have high antiwear properties.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php
This high base number suggests the ability to handle high acid loads from extended use.
Most motorcycle oils have a TBN number between 6 and 7.
TBN generally ranges from 6–80 mg KOH/g in modern lubricants, 7–10 mg KOH/g for general internal combustion engine use and 10–15 mg KOH/g for diesel engine operations
TBN conflicts with friction modifiers. Most ester based oils can have a reasonable TBN number and still have high antiwear properties.
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php
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Until 2016, Valvoline had two conventional versions of Vr1.
One version was "NSL VR1 Racing Oil". The NSL stands for not street legal.
That oil had a TBN of just 4.4, so it was only for short duration use.
Their other version of the conventional VR1 has a TBN of 7.4, quite high.
I wonder if you had the poor result ( rapid oxidation) with the NSL stuff?
It was everywhere for awhile. I bought some once thinking it must be even better than the regular VR1.
One other point re ZDDP levels- this may have been discussed before.
The reason for choosing somewhere around 12-1300 ppm for zinc levels in a " high ZDDP" oil is that zinc levels above that number have no effect on wear rate, with reasonable oil change intervals, plus the zinc actually becomes corrosive when in a concentration higher than this.
That's taken from Valvoline's site, obviously the chemical engineers at Redline disagree.
Glen
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I tried the NSL version in my racebike for a while. Any oil I used in it was like tar after a weekend.
It was regular VR1 that I used for a few trips quite a few years ago.
When I sent a sample to Blackstone at around 1000 miles they told me to cut my oil change interval in half and send them another sample...
With the results I have been seeing with Redline I think I am more likely to listen to Valvoline.
I had better results than that
You've done tests with Redline too? I've done a few UOA with Blackstone and VR1. The last one had the oil slightly thicker than spec after 1100 miles but they thought it was okay for 2000. Here are my results https://1drv.ms/b/s!AvqKXnLrv2Bt8Mty1kGxtqnlU2roGA.
One of the earlier tests was with straight 50 VR1, the other with 20w50. They were both slightly thinner after 1100 miles, maybe they changed their formula slightly in the intervening years. The recent test was with 20w50.
I typically cruise at 72 mph to 80 mph on the highway, depending on the posted speed. It gets pretty hot here in NC in the summer. I have a 1973 850 without an oil cooler.
I double checked the first UOA was Valvoline Motorcycle 20w50. The second test was with straight 50 VR1. The recent test was with 20w50 VR1. I wrote Valvoline because it seemed odd that the 50 VR1 had less zinc than the 20w50 Motorcycle oil. This is what they said back in 2010:
The Valvoline 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil is formulated with only approximately 1120 to 1200 ppm of Zinc and only approximately 1000 to 1050 ppm of phosphorus from our plant level. The VR1 Racing Oil products on the other hand, are listed as our highest content ZDDP oils with approximately 1400 ppm of Zinc and approximately 1300 ppm of Phosphorus, so we are concerned that you are getting this increased amount on your analysis.
They wanted batch numbers but those were long gone.
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My bike at that time was a high compression 880 cc motor. It did run on the hot side.
Engines do tend to run hotter at my altitude also. There is less air density to cool them. Jim
SteveA
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Not a clue, but see Jim's post which indicates to me that several thousand miles would be fine in the UK with lower state of tune, lower altitudes, lower temperatures and less opportunity for extended high speed runs! Or for most leisure riders a riding season?
I think with this oil I probably could extend from 2 race meetings to 3, which if I plan 6 meetings a year is significant!
But I am not sure anything would persuade me to use an oil any longer than 3 meetings, but that is mainly because I need to pull various parts (including the oil filter!) to check the bike over properly.
Personally, I would have thought this oil overkill for road use unless you are as demanding of oils as Jim and other long distance high speed riders.
But what do I know? Truthfully I am in the same boat as you but with a different application.
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I found I was having trouble getting good results from some of the oils I have been testing. It seemed pretty random and made some highly regarded oils test pretty bad.
Watching close I could see that some oils tended to be pushed to one side of the oil cup and even with the new baffle I was using, the arbor was still being starved for oil -but only with a few oils. Other oils tended to be picked up and wrapped around the arbor.
To finally solve this problem I made a new oil cup that is larger in diameter and offset the arbor to one side. Now the oils tend to swirl around the inside of the cup and keep the arbor thoroughly coated with oil.
Of course that affected the results on all the oils -so the boulder is back at the bottom of the hill.
Watching close I could see that some oils tended to be pushed to one side of the oil cup and even with the new baffle I was using, the arbor was still being starved for oil -but only with a few oils. Other oils tended to be picked up and wrapped around the arbor.
To finally solve this problem I made a new oil cup that is larger in diameter and offset the arbor to one side. Now the oils tend to swirl around the inside of the cup and keep the arbor thoroughly coated with oil.
Of course that affected the results on all the oils -so the boulder is back at the bottom of the hill.
I wonder which setup matches our Nortons' cam lubrication through? I think there are additives that increase the oil's cling (like the Lucas oil gear train demo you see in auto parts stores) but I understand too much of those will cause the oil to aerate.
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The additives that produce a lot of cling are most useful in gearboxes -but not so much in engines. The cling additives are normally polymers which break down pretty fast in high temp environments.
Synthetic vs Synthetic?
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