Featherbed FACTS.

I've just been looking through old copies of Roadholder & came across a letter by Ken Sprayson, in which he quotes a few facts about the Featherbed frame.
All Featherbed frames from Jan. 1951 to 1970 were made at Reynolds Tube Co. in two basic versions, Manx & road, the only alteration to the Manx being the shortening & welding on of the rear subframe in '53/'54. They were made in 531 tubing of 1 /1/4" & 3/4" both 16 gauge & bronze welded. Frames for Inters were as Manx but made from A grade mild steel, & had a flat on the top tube to clear the taller engine.
The road frames were made from B grade mild steel tube but in 14 gauge, all arc welded, & had a reduction in bend radius under the seat tube to give more room for road equipment. The only differences being alterations to mounting points for various engines.
All frames had a headstock angle of 64 deg./26 deg. as this was never changed.
Hope this is usefull.

Did anyone doubt this?

But is it not true that Mercury frames were made in Italy?

I have had a love of Featherbed frames since I was 17 years old (1976) when my mate Don had a hot 750 Commando his older brother built it in a 1957 Wideline he loved riding my Honda TL250 trials bike and we swapped bikes for the day, I was so wrapped in how well it handled and with that hot 750 motor with lighten/balanced crank it was a bitsa and had a lot of bogged up bits on it, but it was a very quick bike and smooth to ride, but I took it easy as it was my first ride on a British bike, two weeks later I brought a brand new old stock 74 850 Commando.
But it wasn't long in 1979 Don sold me a good 57 Wideline Featherbed frame complete with fuel tank, oil tank, a rusty frontend and rusty wheels, so in 1980 I started my 850 conversion to the Featherbed frame, Don had two Wideline frames one with dents in the bottom rails and one that was perfect, that is the one I got, I out smarted Don as he was trying to sell me the dented frame.
One thing with Featherbed frames they are a heavy frame, but the tubing is very soft and can easily dent if you accidently hit it, why his other fame had dents in it.
It took me 2 1/2 years to build my Commando/Featherbed as money was tight but it's is still on the road, with the balanced crank and other work I have done to it's a pretty smooth bike for a hard mounted Commando motor and is a lot lighter than when it was a full Commando, surprising how heavy isolastics/engine cradles are.
Only other Featherbed riders/owners know how good they are if built right and I built mine completely different to how Don had his Commando/Featherbed set up, I learned by his mistakes without the boggy jobs.
I now have a Slimline 1960 Manxman project bike I am starting to rebuild but its going to be built as a cafe racer as it was a ex race bike and has racing history back in its days with a lot of missing original parts, I brought it in boxes very cheaply for $1k, so looking forward to start back on this project.

Ashley

Triton Thrasher said:

Did anyone doubt this?

But is it not true that Mercury frames were made in Italy?

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At least one member on this site has quoted a head angle of 24 degrees, & it would seem they are wrong. Also, I think the only frames made in Italy were some Commando ones, unless Mr Sprayson is mistaken, which I very much doubt.

reynolds tubes dating stamp number its on the top endge of the top lug for the engine steady just at the back of the head stock in very small numbers a a letter you need to scrap the paint of to see anything

Great letter. Ken says pretty much the same thing in his book, but we've never been able to convince Acotrel that the head angle wasn't 24 degrees. Hey, that's part of life on a forum.

Ken

lcrken said:

Great letter. Ken says pretty much the same thing in his book, but we've never been able to convince Acotrel that the head angle wasn't 24 degrees. Hey, that's part of life on a forum.

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That's so that you can always be thinking of him (fondly, I'm sure)

I am fairly certain the rake on a genuine Featherbed frame was 24.5 degrees and used 19 inch wheels.. In Australia, aftermarket frames were made with 26 degree rake to suit18 inch wheels. The trail works out to be similar for both. I do not know if the Domiracer had 18 inch wheels. A bit depends on the position of the motor. A genuine Manx with 18 inch wheels would not be as nimble as one with 19 inch wheels. A Yamaha TZ350 usually has 18 inch wheels and 26 degree rake. Compare them.
The frames Ken McIntosh uses in New Zealand have 19 inch wheels. He had Cameron Donald riding one at Phillip Island, one year. There is a difference in the hancling which many people do not notice, it enables the rider to use more go in corners. A Manx handles better than a Yamaha, it can afford to be more nimble because of the motor. It was the same old story - either faster in corners or faster on the straights. If you are observant when you race, you can often tell where another bike will be quicker than your own, just by looking at them.
The rider adjusts to the bike.

Like I said. We've been over this many times with Al. He just won't believe Ken Sprayson, by far the most expert guy you could find on featherbed Norton frames.

Ken

Maybe we could have a Medium channel the McCandless brothers and their spirits could visit Al and convince him…

what is the 26 degree related to? If you (badly) just measure from vertical with bike on it’s wheels, then apparent head angle varies with tyre diameters and fork loading/ springs etc.

jan nelder said:

what is the 26 degree related to? If you (badly) just measure from vertical with bike on it’s wheels, then apparent head angle varies with tyre diameters and fork loading/ springs etc.

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Measured with the frame sat level on the bottom rails it is 64 deg. or 26 deg. from the vertical.

When the rear squats the angle increases, and so does the trail and the bike self-steers. With a Manx, the bike oversteers when you gas it in a corner. It is the reason they are faster than many other bikes.
Until you experience it, you will not recognise it. For me, it was a real eye-opener. Most bikes tend to run wide when you do that.
When you race, it is normal to try to advance the transition point from braking to accelerating, in corners, With a Manx, you can get on the gas much earlier than with most other bikes. The Seeley also does it.
It makes a much bigger difference than might be imagined.

With most race bikes we need to be very careful, but with a Manx we can really gas it hard in corners. The weight is well forward, and they really feel great. Horsepower does not matter so much when we have that handling. With a lot of bikes, the available horsepower cannot be used in corners. It is almost impossible to get a high lean angle with a Manx. They do not work that way. No Triton is ever as good.
When I was a kid, all the A grade riders had them. Not much else ever won the top races.

acotrel said:

I am fairly certain the rake on a genuine Featherbed frame was 24.5 degrees and used 19 inch wheels.. In Australia, aftermarket frames were made with 26 degree rake to suit18 inch wheels. The trail works out to be similar for both. I do not know if the Domiracer had 18 inch wheels. A bit depends on the position of the motor. A genuine Manx with 18 inch wheels would not be as nimble as one with 19 inch wheels. A Yamaha TZ350 usually has 18 inch wheels and 26 degree rake. Compare them.
The frames Ken McIntosh uses in New Zealand have 19 inch wheels. He had Cameron Donald riding one at Phillip Island, one year. There is a difference in the hancling which many people do not notice, it enables the rider to use more go in corners. A Manx handles better than a Yamaha, it can afford to be more nimble because of the motor. It was the same old story - either faster in corners or faster on the straights. If you are observant when you race, you can often tell where another bike will be quicker than your own, just by looking at them.
The rider adjusts to the bike.

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well the featherbed frame rake angle are 23 degrees and this frame was drawn up on the back of a woodbine pack in the royal arms in regate on a pub run with my great uncle freddie Dixon and Erny Chrust the car driver and rex McCandelss they in a hot debite about frames back then in Irland were called rat traps and you can read the book by Rex mcCandess a better rat trap, Now in this hot debite it was my great uncle that said right hear you are a simlpe frame and drew it out on the back of a woodbine cigeret packet and head stock a one tube in a loop with one part of the loop welded to the top end and the other end looped around too the bottom end of the head stock now this was back in late 1945 it was not until 1948 when this frame stared to take its shape now the first trail engine fitted at the time was a fiat 600 fitted inline with the frame and a douglas 600 gearbox chaindrive, fitted up to the engine and was race round dublin streets and won the race and at that time at the finsh line the one and only Joe Crage came over to Rex to inqier about the frame design and a deal was struck up to make frame for Norton at a one english pound note and late in 1949 a trail race at brans hatch with the manx engine fitted a riden by mr arther danels after the race he said to reporters it was like riding a featherbed the name stuck the rest is now history

acotrel said:

I am fairly certain the rake on a genuine Featherbed frame was 24.5 degrees and used 19 inch wheels.. In Australia, aftermarket frames were made with 26 degree rake to suit18 inch wheels. The trail works out to be similar for both. I do not know if the Domiracer had 18 inch wheels. A bit depends on the position of the motor. A genuine Manx with 18 inch wheels would not be as nimble as one with 19 inch wheels. A Yamaha TZ350 usually has 18 inch wheels and 26 degree rake. Compare them.
The frames Ken McIntosh uses in New Zealand have 19 inch wheels. He had Cameron Donald riding one at Phillip Island, one year. There is a difference in the hancling which many people do not notice, it enables the rider to use more go in corners. A Manx handles better than a Yamaha, it can afford to be more nimble because of the motor. It was the same old story - either faster in corners or faster on the straights. If you are observant when you race, you can often tell where another bike will be quicker than your own, just by looking at them.
The rider adjusts to the bike.

Click to expand...

Of course Al, Yamahas suck.

Suzuki RG 250s also have 26 degree rake except for the one which has 25.5 degree rake. I think one of them had a 17 inch front wheel with an 18 inch rear wheel.
I built a quick Suzuki two stroke, won a race with it and immediately sold it. It was like playing table tennis. An RZ350 Yamaha would be about the best.

My mate was happy to tell me that he beat a Minnovation Seeley 750 with his RZ350 Yamaha - probably as fast as a TD3 ? To me it does not mean anything. It is all 'horses for courses', when they are stuck to the wall like flies. Have a look at Moto GP these days - where do they pass ? It is never on a straight or a long sweeping bend - usually in the tight corners.

If you put a Manx beside an RZ350, the Manx would look absurd. I do not know how the McCandless brothers ever got it so right. I never knew what they were about until I rode one. My Triton 500 was fast, but the Manx would have lapped faster. What power it has can really be used. The Triton required much more care.

Can any of you knowledgeable Featherbed folks tell me the location / purpose of this stamping from my 1956 Wideline 99 ?
It measures 4 1/2 “ x 3 1/4 “ and I can’t find it in any reference.
Thanks RT