Engine oil cooler

Acotrel .... my bike runs awesome in warm temps as well , plugs look good when I check .... I mentioned bike seemed to like the cooler air of Fall and early Spring better .... generally right now anyways just a great working / riding bike , as well it should be after all these years of tinkering on it
Craig

NortonMKIIA850 said:

Any European source for those thermostats, or similar ones …?

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Not that I know of, but if anybody you know is going over the pond, you could always get it sent to a hotel etc for pickup.

The Norman Hyde oil cooler on eBay went for £127 earlier this evening. Wow, but I guess it was of the period and they are no longer made.

I was wrong! (how can that be!) Period oil coolers as per the one on eBay are on Mr Hyde's web site for £189.
The alloy bracket clamps to the two down tubes and the cooler dangles vertically between the down tubes.
But does not look like it contains a thermostat and bypass.

OIL COOLER ASSEMBLY Part Number: BOI01 | £189.00 Inc. Vat

This goes beyond the initial question by the OP, but here goes. Numerous owners have fitted radiator type oil coolers using U-clamps at the downtubes, including exposed rubber hoses or even stainless tubes, which I find unsightly. Has anyone made a neat installation using the coil mounting bracket and hoses along the spine tube ? If a dual coil is fitted, there should be some possibilities.

I also like Acadian´s vertical mounted cooler fitted in front of the oil tank, as seen here:
https://www.accessnorton.com/NortonCommando/oil-cooler-installation.5464/
It would be interesting to measure the heat transfer in this location compared to the traditional fitting.

Another idea of mine is to create an artificial aluminum oil pan / oil cooler designed as a heat sink and a flat plate welded together after creating a suitably large cavity inside. Fittings would be screwed or welded to the flat plate. Plumbing can be very short and unobtrusive.
http://www.linneytuning.com/product/large-volume-engine-oil-pan/
The fabricated liquid cooler is fitted between the lower frame tubes and would be far less obtrusive than the high mounted radiator design. Heat transfer (by convection) will probably be reduced due to a smaller wetted surface; the upside would be equal distribution of heat and therefore a more effective use of the available wetted area. Heat transfer is probably good enough for a street bike. Any thoughts?

Regards,
Knut

JimC said:

What does that have to do with Nortons and an oil cooler? Let’s stick with apples to apples.

As far as I know XS1100s here in the US ran oil coolers.

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Yes my Canadian model XS1100 came with an oil cooler, stock.

piero
An oil cooler and thermostat can be fitted anywhere between oil pump return and oil filter line.

mdt-son
Good idea, a similar thing I was looking at are the extruded, finned pipe style aluminium transmission oil coolers offered by everyone from Mr Gasket and Derale to Aliexpress, most being 12" plus in length but quite big at 3" diameter with this length holding an extra 0.5 litre/0.6 quart of oil
They are usually dual pass with fittings at one end and possibly more efficient when mounted in the airflow than those awful looking, single pass bottle brush thingies that look like 1920,s water heater inserts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mr-Gasket-7365G-Dual-Pass-Aluminum-Transmission-Cooler-12-Inch/382575140760

Haven,t actually checked positioning etc but if space could be found, it would be a compact and unobtrusive setup (along with a suitable thermostat) for a street Commando as you point out.

oldbeezer
love the stylish look of my Interstate side panels too much to leave them off but I drilled rows of 10mm holes down the front and rear inner faces to let air flow over the oil tank beneath. Not sure how effective but rear downtube gets alot warmer than it used to ( no specific scientific data available for those who might challenge this approach, sorry...)

I was wondering why not do up an oil tank like found on a Velocette. Paint it and leave the side panel off so that it is exposed to the air flow. Probably wouldn't cool as much as an oil cooler but I suspect there would be some improvement and a bit of weight savings.

KiwiNeill said:

mdt-son
A similar idea I was looking at are the extruded, finned pipe style aluminium transmission oil coolers offered by everyone from Mr Gasket and Derale to Aliexpress, most being 12" plus in length but quite big at 3" diameter.
They are usually dual pass with fittings at one end and are mounted lenghtways, possibly more efficient than those awful looking, single pass bottle brush thingies that look like 1920,s water heater inserts.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mr-Gasket-7365G-Dual-Pass-Aluminum-Transmission-Cooler-12-Inch/382575140760

Haven,t actually checked positioning etc but if space could be found, it would be an effective, compact and unobtrusive setup (along with a suitable thermostat) for a street Commando as you point out.

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Search eBay for this-

OIL COOLER COOLING For 125cc 140cc 150cc Motorcycle Scooter ATV Dirt Bike BUGGY


It’s an extruded aluminum multi pass exchanger that will fit between the front down tubes

Inexpensive too

oldbeezer said:

I was wondering why not do up an oil tank like found on a Velocette. Paint it and leave the side panel off so that it is exposed to the air flow. Probably wouldn't cool as much as an oil cooler but I suspect there would be some improvement and a bit of weight savings.

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I had a similar idea. Unfortunately, steel has a poor heat conductivity compared to aluminum (17:118, i.e., 1:7) which makes it a good container but no great cooler (hence the need for heat shield / side panel). After the P11 disaster using an oil tank out of aluminum, it's not worth trying to fit one, although they are made and it does make sense to use them from a thermal point of view. To make an integrated cooler work when using a steel tank, part of the outer wall will have to be cut out and a flat frame fabricated around the edges. Then a suitably machined aluminum plate (heat sink) would have to be bolted to the steel tank's flat frame, allowing hot oil to tranfer heat to the heat sink directly. Making this connection oil tight is the prime challenge.

-Knut

Anyone done an oil in frame solution as a tank replacement with better cooling?
I've seen Harleys with finned down tubes that had plumbed oil lines top and bottom...in gleaming chrome of course.

I ran an oil cooler that was intended for the old VW bugs. This was back in the 60's and 70's when straight viscosity 50W oil was the recommended for air cooled engines.

https://www.partsgeek.com/bl9q1bx-v...VVLbACh3pyQtQEAQYCCABEgJOUvD_BwE#immersedview

It was twice the heat transfer capacity than optimal, but after suffering a piston seizure, I felt it was worth it.

The installation was very clean with the cooler fitting vertically between the down tubes. I have subsequently removed the cooler, as I feel modern oils need to run hotter than the old single viscosity oils.

Slick

BTW .... according to my calculations, an oil cooler that yields a 30 deg. F drop in oil temperature ( delta T), represents about 8% of the engine's cooling requirement.

Has anyone tried a finned alloy heat sink clamped to the filter as a method of cooling the oil. These heat sinks are available on E- Bay for BMW car oil filters among other things. It would probably require a bit of modification to fit given how close the standard filter mounts to the gearbox cradle but it would certainly negate the use of lengths of unsightly and vulnerable plumbing.

dave M said:

Has anyone tried a finned alloy heat sink clamped to the filter as a method of cooling the oil. These heat sinks are available on E- Bay for BMW car oil filters among other things. It would probably require a bit of modification to fit given how close the standard filter mounts to the gearbox cradle but it would certainly negate the use of lengths of unsightly and vulnerable plumbing.

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I doubt one would find much of a delta T with one of those.

Slick

Sorry for my ignorance but What is a delta T?

dave M said:

Sorry for my ignorance but What is a delta T?

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Read my previous post ......

Sorry, we engineers assume everyone speaks enginenglish.

Well I’m an engineer and this isn’t in my vocabulary. Different countries have different technical jargon, not everyone speaks Americanglish!

delta T, change in temperature.

Cost/benefit to cooling all the oil is doubtful generally because our remote tank and the volume of oil in that tank keep our average temps lower than other tankless engines. Risk of failure, leaks, etc., add to the cost. Hot climate/conditions of use may rebalance the costs vs benefits.

My interest is limited to cooling just the rocker feed oil entering the head where oil temps are high enough to harm that part of the oil that passes through and around the exhaust valves/springs area. But . . . Not much oil volume there . . . So not much cooling and even cooled oil might still be burned to point of degradation

xbacksideslider said:

My interest is limited to cooling just the rocker feed oil entering the head where oil temps are high enough to harm that part of the oil that passes through and around the exhaust valves/springs area. But . . . Not much oil volume there . . . So not much cooling and even cooled oil might still be burned to point of degradation

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Only 3 ways to solve your problem .....

1) flood the rocker boxes with more oil to absorb the heat, lowering the oil temp. Not practical because the rocker geometry and clearances limit the oil delivery volume, and over flooding can leak down the valve guides.
2) cool the oil so it can absorb more heat before reaching critical (smoke) temperature. Not practical because of reason you state .... not much volume of oil available.
3) insulate rocker boxes to shield oil from contact with hot part of head. This could be done practically by applying a solid high temp. insulation on floor of rocker boxes, using a suitable high temp. adhesive. One would have to carefully form the insulation around the heat insulators under the valve springs, otherwise one would form a pooling area where oil could become trapped, overheat, and reverse any benefit. An insulation thickness of only 1/8 inch would significantly lower the temperature of the surface that the oil would be in contact with. In the same vein, one could mill oil drainage channels to carry the oil more efficiently to the pushrod tunnels, rather than spread over the rocker box floor where the oil is exposed to a greater surface area.

Slick