Donald Trump? Stranger thing have happened in the USA..

Trump's latest assertion is that President Obama founded ISIS - reported in the media this morning. How much more ridiculous does this moron have to get? Arabs are the most ardent anti-black people in the world. When I worked for Boeing, I dealt with several Arab airlines. None of the team were black Americans. We had a couple of Arab ex-pats and a descendant of an Arab immigrant. I'm British and another tem member was Norwegian. My immediate boss was the only US person on the team

BTW, I don't have a horse in this race. Since I'm still legally British, I don't have the vote.

It is quite possible that the US originally funded ISIS to undermine the Assad and Saudi regimes. The British probably taught the Americans how to do that stuff. If you think back to the nationalist movements in Malaysia and Vietnam - who trained the insurgents ? However when Trump plays the conspiracy theory card, he really doesn't have much credibility because of his previous idiocy.

Then origins of ISIS can be traced back to a failure of the W Administration to recognize the significance of gathered intelligence [prior to the "surge" in which troops were put back into Iraq to combat insurgency against the newly-formed Iraqi govenment, The insurgency was fueled by that government's oppression of the minority Sunni population. Although the "surge" beat back the rebellion somewhat, the leaders of ISIS, (formerly Al-Qaeda of Iraq) al-Zarqawi and al-Baghdadi, went underground and built the organization's strength, a fact that the W Admin dismissed. All this took place when Obama was an Illinois State Senator, including the planned troop reductions which Obama carried out as President, and, also incidentally, Trump supported at the time. Both leaders of ISIS are now dead (as well as Osama Bin-laden, who had previously disavowed al-Zarqawi for killing fellow Muslims), killed by US forces when Obama was President.

So Trump again proves himself a liar and a hypocrite and shows complete ignorance of history.

So far I have noticed there have been three people such this in my life, in recent times. - Tony Abbott, Pauline Hanson and Donald Trump. They all play the same game. What their level of support says to me is that there is a failing in democracy which is related to education. Our two Pauline Hanson and Tony Abbott are total dick-heads, and I suspect Trump is also. They seem to appeal to little mediocre people who apparently identify with them.

acotrel said:

So far I have noticed there have been three people such this in my life, in recent times. - Tony Abbott, Pauline Hanson and Donald Trump. They all play the same game. What their level of support says to me is that there is a failing in democracy which is related to education. Our two Pauline Hanson and Tony Abbott are total dick-heads, and I suspect Trump is also. They seem to appeal to little mediocre people who apparently identify with them.

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I'm not sure it's a lack of education, misinformed is more like it. The average Trump supporter makes $70,000 USD in income per year and perceives theirself to be someone who works hard and plays by the rules. The misconception comes from the idea that many people are getting by ( and possibly are even better off) by collecting freebies, welfare and have no desire to work. They think they are being screwed and they think someone like Trump, with a huge ego and full of chest-puffing bluster is going to end the freebies, kick out all the illegals and take the country back to an earlier time when these giveaways and "entitlements" as the right-wing politicians like to refer to Social Security and Medicare (which I have paid for all my adult life and plan to take advantage of soon) didn't exist and America was "greater" than it is now.

Now the RNC has him parroting the tired, old discredited tenets of trickle-down supply-side economics in a lame attempt to get back some of the mainstream Republicans who have deserted him in droves. The more he shoots his mouth off, the less votes he's gonna get. And the guy just can't STFU because his ego won't let him. Every stupid thing he says, he refutes or backpedals on the next day, saying he was "joking" or being "sarcastic", but only after public shock and horror becomes evident. No matter what he says, somewhere there's a news clip somewhere of him previously saying exactly the opposite.

I think the problem with Trump is the image of Americans which he projects. I've been on this forum for a long time now and have gained an opinion of what the average American guy is like. Donald Trump is not that. I suggest that even if he does not become President, he will have done a lot of damage. I know that some of us here in Australia are doing a rethink about our defence relationship. Our defence force currently flies missions over the South China Sea to establish some level of maritime normality. However it can all turn to shit.

What I don't understand about the US political system is "Who chooses the people who become the candidates". Why Mrs. Clinton and Bernie Sanders? I don't remember any discussion of other people being possible candidates. The other lot did have 16 potentials when the race started, and all but Trump fell off the wagon in primaries.

I think there is an underlying problem - it is what people WANT to believe. Looked at objectively, all Trump has going for him is a big mouth. The same has applied to the rat-bags in the Aussie system. It is not even as though they come up with a decent sales-pitch. All they need is to be controversial and people immediately believe they are worth voting for. In our recent federal election, many people voted for Pauline Hanson's One Nation party - the members of that party are simply bloody appalling in their ignorance, however some voters identify with them. So they are now a power in our Senate - they will be ratifying all federal legislation. Perhaps Trump's 'WOW factor' will totally fade away ? We got Hanson back in parliament again, however Americans might not be so stupid.

frankdamp said:

What I don't understand about the US political system is "Who chooses the people who become the candidates". Why Mrs. Clinton and Bernie Sanders? I don't remember any discussion of other people being possible candidates. The other lot did have 16 potentials when the race started, and all but Trump fell off the wagon in primaries.

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Anyone is free to enter the primaries to become a party candidate. But lack of money soon derails many campaigns and those potential candidates are forced to drop out. Whoever can garner enough monetary support to travel, advertise, poll and make appearances can stay on the race and try to collect enough votes and delegates to win a candidacy. The Citizens United decision by the US Supreme Court has allowed unlimited money to flow in from billionaires who are trying to buy elections from national to local. Hilary Clinton has promised repeal. The problem will be getting judicial appointees through a hostile Congress that has become addicted to that big money. CU is the worst thing to happen in the US in decades. At a time when money has been squeezed out of the lower and middle classes and towards the tiny top minority, CU has been a perfect storm, enabling the oligarchy to attempt to seize total control. We even have an oligarch for a Presidential candidate. Hopefully he will be sent home to count his money, which is what he was doing before the current political cycle.

I noticed the comment about people choosing not to vote. In Australia voting is compulsory for everyone over age 18. However as a Frenchman once rightly pointed out to me - compulsory voting is undemocratic. In Australia we have long history of being involved in other peoples' wars. We lost 100,000 men in two world wars, fighting for democracy. A refusal to vote is simply tantamount to throwing their sacrifice back in their faces. There is another thing about the French. The Australian Army is nearly always based on volunteers - when our guys mutiny, it is usually for good reason and we don't randomly shoot one in ten of them to make an example for the rest of the troops.

nothing new about a dt, what goes around comes around,

dude's somewhat clueless, but heh, whadayagonnadoo,

bottom line, whatever he really is about, he got the votes and that means lotsa folks spoke, whatever anyone thinks of trump,

you across the pond folks ended up with the churchill chamberlain options/deal(s), at that time (strange things in the US??)

mainstream politics is what it is, no question that lotsa folks are pizzed and for good reasons,

at the very least, for now, dt is rocking the status quo boat upside down, much of it that is tired old bs,

& even if he loses, good bet there will be a plan B, perhaps like never before seen yet in our times,

then we have dt & Co visiting Louisiana, meanwhile the big cheeze pres is busy golfing ..good stuff

I have a problem - I don't know whether I am right-wing or left wing. When I go to work, my first aim is to help my organisation make a profit. However I believe in Employee Share Ownership and a common sense of direction within organisations. So I am not anti-union. I believe in industrial democracy and democracy generally. I believe we need common goals especially about quality of life, and not divisiveness and scaremongering.

On the matter of ISIS, I believe their primary goal is authoritarian - destruction of western democracy. While we are fighting each other, they are winning. We might be better to calmly consider how to respond to threats rather than loudly thumping the tub.

acotrel said:

I have a problem - I don't know whether I am right-wing or left wing. When I go to work, my first aim is to help my organisation make a profit. However I believe in Employee Share Ownership and a common sense of direction within organisations. So I am not anti-union. I believe in industrial democracy and democracy generally. I believe we need common goals especially about quality of life, and not divisiveness and scaremongering.

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There's nothing contradictory about wanting to make a decent living and wanting your employer to make a profit. Unions may have stepped on their dicks, but they are still the only force in society that seeks to raise the standard of living for the folks who create all the wealth-those who work. Politicians of all stripes are pretty much in universal agreement concerning wage stagnation and a need to do something about it, but none of them have an actual plan of how to make it happen.

I don't know about other countries, but in the US, right-wing conservatives believe in the concept of "right-to-work" which dictates that those working under a union-negotiated contract are not required to pay for their "good fortune" and can withhold dues. But the Union is still required to represent them and defend their job security. In every State where "right-to-work" laws have passed, wages have plummeted and Unions have been gutted, which is the actual purpose of the laws. To me, it should be illegal to require any company, charity, civic organization or any other entity to provide their services for free. If you join a country club, you pay for the privilege of playing golf, swimming, playing tennis and using the other facilities the club offers. Try telling some of these so-called conservatives that anyone can enjoy the benefits of membership in their fancy clubs without paying the membership fees and see what happens. They may not let you in even if you DO have the means and willingness to pay for the membership.

So while I can appreciate some of the tenets of the political right, their biggest fault is hypocrisy. The above is just one example.

dunno but in my neck of the woods, and even in 'merica, mainstream left, hilary obama openly acknowledge the importance of unions & court union votes,

haven't heard a thing from dt or that party whatsoever

acotrel said:

I have a problem - I don't know whether I am right-wing or left wing. When I go to work, my first aim is to help my organisation make a profit. However I believe in Employee Share Ownership and a common sense of direction within organisations. So I am not anti-union. I believe in industrial democracy and democracy generally. I believe we need common goals especially about quality of life, and not divisiveness and scaremongering.

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84ok said:

dunno but in my neck of the woods, and even in 'merica, mainstream left, hilary obama openly acknowledge the importance of unions & court union votes,

haven't heard a thing from dt or that party whatsoever

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The Donald said he would create thousands of new, high-paying jobs. When asked "How?" he replied, "I don't know, I just will."

If you believe this, you must be an Eskimo snow buyer. And for all you working folks out there, if you want to rely upon the benevolence of rich cheeseballs like Trump and his recent come-to-Jesus with trickle-down, supply-side economics, you should vote for him. I prefer a collectively-bargained contract.

I suggest it all comes down to what is important. If you put two blowflies in a cage with a limited but constant supply of food, there are repeating cycles of population explosions and mass extinctions. How big is Donald Trump in the scheme of things, when compared with the global population explosion and the likelihood of a wipe-out due to a pandemic ? He might simply speed the process up a bit, however whichever way we go, we are stuffed. So we should probably just enjoy the present and manage the risks as much as we can. All we can hope for is an extension of time. I believe our generation has seen the best of everything - this is as good as it gets.

I'd like to see a line on all election ballots for "None of the above". If that line is the winner, the election is declared null and void and has to be re-run. None of the candidates in the voided election would be allowed to participate in the re-run.

frankdamp said:

I'd like to see a line on all election ballots for "None of the above". If that line is the winner, the election is declared null and void and has to be re-run. None of the candidates in the voided election would be allowed to participate in the re-run.

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Cynicism and non-voting are the two biggest reasons bad politicians get elected. It should be compulsory to vote, even if it's for a write-in. Of course, you'd still have morons voting for Daffy Duck and Adolph Hitler. if everyone voted, within a few election cycles, you'd get a better class of candidates and a more representative government. As it stands, most leaders get elected with underwhelming minorities of voters.

Geo. W. got elected with a minority share of the popular vote thanks to the silly electoral collage and his baby brother's machinations as Florida governor. Now that party is running an orange bankrupt ersatz billionaire with a silly hairdo. A few more cycles of less and less people voting and we WILL end up with Daffy Duck or Adolph Hitler.

I'm not quite sure what Nigel Farage thought he was adding to the debate in his recent speech. Or why on earth anyone in the US would find his views interesting.

To me, he looked, and sounded, like someone who had turned up at the wrong event by mistake!