Does an 850 Handle Better than a 750 ??

Further derail!-I've read that that's why Fokkers DR1 triplane was successful in the right hands
More the Sopwith Camel I think. All the heavy bits (engine, guns, fuel, pilot) crammed into the first 6 or 7 feet of the fuselage. This concentration of mass together with the immense gyroscopic effect of the rotary engine gave it a lightning fast right hand turn (but a very slow left turn - far quicker to do a 270 degree right turn rather than a 90 degree left!) and meant that an experienced pilot could do amazing things with the aircraft.

While these characteristics are true for most rotary aircraft (including the Fokker triplane), the Camel was the extreme example.
It was however very difficult and dangerous for a novice to learn how to handle it. No two seater version for example, so the first flight was also the first solo.
I seem to recall that more Camels were destroyed in accidents then by enemy action for example.

Now back to your normal program....
 
Grisly I know, but Germany's 'Starfighter' ended up known as the 'Widowmaker'... 115 deaths and there wasn't even a war on!
One of them piled in at RNAS Yeovilton, around 5 miles from where I used to live. The Late, Great Bob Calvert did a concept album on the subject... https://g.co/kgs/9gRwFm
I've been in the factory in Bavaria where they were built, and rather amusingly it's a long, thin factory which gave no end of difficulties when they started tooling up for Typhoon production.

This has got to be the thread creep to end all thread creeps :D
 
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There was a German F104 that ran off the end of the runway and into the forest while I was stationed at Hahn Air Base, Germany in autumn ‘75. No fatality. The Germans pulled it out, put on a new nose cone and it flew out on it’s own power. A very elegant looking fighter. USAF 50th Tactical Fighter Wing was home based there flying F4 Phantoms.
Does an 850 Handle Better than a 750 ??
 
Road racing a Commando against BMWs and Hondas, is like chasing an FW190 or a Zero with a Mk9 Spitfire - we need rocket motors.
 
Balls .

Er , thats why they need a beefier frame , swingarm , gearbox , engine , brakes , forks , and a few other things ! :(

As for HANDLING ? . define ! ( Roadholding , rideability ? , touring ? Blowing off whizz bangs ? )
TYRES I found were major contributors . In the day they reported motorway speeds ( 90 to 115 mph ) the Norton
could weave , two up - baggage etc . And was a trifle twitchy .

But Early Commandos ran 3.00 - 19 Front , and orrible old G P Avons rear . Which ive head are good for lunatics on unsealed roads .

Id found Continetals near leathal . the period tech. report is they were designed to swap ends , rather than wash out the front .
Lower co efficent , or plian lower efficent , at REAR . So the third time it snaps out at TT100 speeds , youve hit the curb .

3.60 & 4.10 ancient roadrunners were good balanced for solo spirited riding .
the 3.00 KR 76 F & 4.10 TT100 rear , were ' keep your eye on the target ' , & pay attention .

Huge 4.10 19 K 70 ( new ) rear , with the 3.60 Road runner front , was good , in rain .
The 112 mph in third meant when you couldnt see the speedo you got there twice as quick , to get out of the cold .

As a general all round set up , for hacking around rather than dragging the pegs , it was generally the more relaxing ,
or shall we say least anxiety inducing . This was with 110 Lb rear springs & new Gas Girling rear shocks , the front was a bit stiff .

To really annoy people , The 61 triumph was better on unsealed roads , And steered darn well - on a leading throttle , or leant on the front decelerating .
I dont recall blacking out the vision on banked bends on the commando . But it were vastly less pulverising than the triumph , with grotty single damped
rear shocks . Shudder Bang . stagger . BUT CARS on Ripples wont steer or brake either , a darn sight worse . at Times . Unless theyre Torsion Bar Front spring
Chryslers !

Therfore , if the backs under control & you can get the front dialed in to match tho Id have it a notch or two more resistant ( Firmer ) for ' doing a Desperate '
on the brakes . If its got any . ( Triumph was efficient to 80 , Norton wasnt entirely efficent , and you sometimes heeled the rear pedal . )

THUS , the EARLIER Commandos are likely better off road ( unsealed ) and in the tighter stuff , whereas the Late frame & triple Clamps , better on the Auto Strada .
if it dosnt blow up . ( fit a bigger oil tank ) . and other things .
 
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My experience too. 850s better suited to long open road rides, 750s a little more agile.
Did I ever mention the Combat was my favourite Commando? ;)
Mine too, from a handling and responsive engine standpoint my Combat was much more fun than my 850. “Was”, because I had both and one had to go, and I had a lot of the “Combat problems” with mine—sumping from running hard and fast for long periods, mostly— so I kept the trouble free 850 and sold the 750.
 
Mine too, from a handling and responsive engine standpoint my Combat was much more fun than my 850. “Was”, because I had both and one had to go, and I had a lot of the “Combat problems” with mine—sumping from running hard and fast for long periods, mostly— so I kept the trouble free 850 and sold the 750.
I get it, but I went the other way. Sold the 850 JPN and kept the combat. Too much fun to give up. :). Besides the “arctic snow frog“ rattles too much with fiberglass parts hitting metal.
 
You can change the handling of many motorcycles to suit yourself. However you should be very careful when doing it. If you get it wrong, a problem can come from nowhere and grab you by the throat. When you ride a motorcycle on public roads, the conditions do not repeat so often, so the process is more difficult. I always take particular notice of how the machine feels when I brake or accelerate when it is on a lean. If it tends to stand-up as you brake, it is understeering - that is dangerous. It will probably understeer both going into and coming out of corners. You might tend to run wide in corners, and if you go in too hot, you have a problem getting around.
If you ride your bike on a race circuit, you usually know after two laps, what it is doing
 
Interesting question. I suppose the real answer is that some 750 models, with some riders, with some tires, and on some roads/circuits, are"better handling" than some 850 models, with some riders, etc., AND ALSO VICE VERSA. There are really too many variables for a blanket statement. I've ridden a couple of 750s and several 850s on the street, and would have to say that the 750s felt nimbler. Might just be the lower weight. On the track I raced a 750 PR rather extensively, and a MK3 850 briefly. Comparing their handling when both were close to stock chassis configuration (before I modified them extensively), the 750 was way superior, but I do think the extra weight made a lot of the difference. The PR was advertised as 385 lbs. dry, and the MK3 as 460 lbs. dry. All the MK3s I've owned have been a bit piggish compared to the earlier models.

On the other hand, my grandsons heavily modified MK3 weighs in at 460 lbs wet (440 lbs. dry?) and handles really well. But it does have Ohlins shocks and Honda cartridge fork internals. So, some 750s handle better than some 850s, and some don't.

And any of them can be hustled around corners quite well by a decent rider.

Ken
 
There was a German F104 that ran off the end of the runway and into the forest while I was stationed at Hahn Air Base, Germany in autumn ‘75. No fatality. The Germans pulled it out, put on a new nose cone and it flew out on it’s own power. A very elegant looking fighter. USAF 50th Tactical Fighter Wing was home based there flying F4 Phantoms.
View attachment 99712
I think that's a Mercury Bobcat "woody" station wagon, I had one! I WISH I had a Phantom...
 
Most road bikes have neutral steering or understeer slightly. If you carry a pillion and do not wind up the adjustment on the rear shocks, there is often too much squat which can make the bike oversteer. My mate has Suzuki Bandit, -When he brakes, it stands up and goes straight. Garden gate Nortons used to do that. Yamaha two-strokes tend to have neutral steering. In races they usually are at full lean and high on the track in corners. They do not often accelerate through corners - their riders usually wait until the bike is up straight and pointed in the right direction. For a bike which oversteers when gassed in corners, tyres are less relevant If a bike has neutral steering, the weight distribution is more important. If the weight is equal front and rear, a neutral steering bike usually feels pretty good. If the bike oversteers, more weight on the front feels better. Powering all the way through a corner is the fastest way around - oversteer plus weight on the front. The handling has to suit the power characteristics of the motor
John Kocinsky with the RVF750 Honda used to power through corners. But most current MotoGP riders do not.

 
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I Learned how to make my motorcycle handle by crashing my first race bike many times - not recommended !
I finally stuffed it's handling by fitting 18 inch wheels to get better tyres. It became neutral handling and exhausting to ride, where it used to be positive and nimble.
With my Seeley, I fluked it. - completely random chance - not intent. I did something I thought might work and I was lucky.
 
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I Learned how to make my motorcycle handle by crashing my first race bike many times - not recommended !
I finally stuffed it's handling by fitting 18 inch wheels to get better tyres. It became neutral handling and exhausting to ride, where it used to be positive and nimble.
With my Seeley, I fluked it. - completely random chance - not intent. I did something I thought might work and I was lucky.
I don't understand the link between the information you have provided and the subject of the thread.
Please explain?
 
I don't understand the link between the information you have provided and the subject of the thread.
Please explain?
Some things are what they are. Herb Becker apparently made Doug Macrae's Commando handle. But that is probably a rarity. The Commando was not designed to be a sports' bike. Sports' bikes are usually developed through road racing.
When you talk about Commando handling, it is probably unreasonable to expect much. All I would ever expect would be that a Commando would not mishandle badly, unless you rode it too fast in corners.
However, the worst handling bike I ever rode would have to be a CB750 Honda.
 
Interesting question. I suppose the real answer is that some 750 models, with some riders, with some tires, and on some roads/circuits, are"better handling" than some 850 models, with some riders, etc., AND ALSO VICE VERSA. There are really too many variables for a blanket statement. I've ridden a couple of 750s and several 850s on the street, and would have to say that the 750s felt nimbler. Might just be the lower weight. On the track I raced a 750 PR rather extensively, and a MK3 850 briefly. Comparing their handling when both were close to stock chassis configuration (before I modified them extensively), the 750 was way superior, but I do think the extra weight made a lot of the difference. The PR was advertised as 385 lbs. dry, and the MK3 as 460 lbs. dry. All the MK3s I've owned have been a bit piggish compared to the earlier models.

On the other hand, my grandsons heavily modified MK3 weighs in at 460 lbs wet (440 lbs. dry?) and handles really well. But it does have Ohlins shocks and Honda cartridge fork internals. So, some 750s handle better than some 850s, and some don't.

And any of them can be hustled around corners quite well by a decent rider.

Ken
Would there be much difference between a 750 and 850 in weight?
Ive not weighed them but looking at the parts book for a 71 750 Roadster and a 73 850 Roadster there doesn't appear to be anything in it, save a pound or two on the strengthened swing arm and crankcases.
We weighed a 73 850 Interstate with added Alton e start. It was 4 lbs heavier than my MK3 Interstate, but the 73 Interstate fuel tank is larger than the MK3 version.
So the same weight +- a couple of pounds.

Glen
 
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