Chain

Hi Andy, just received your two rear chains for my Commando and Atlas , quick delivery , many thanks ....!

Ok Andy have the chains now thanks to Dereck, the lite weight timing chain has gone to another happy customer, I will run the IWIS rear chain on my race bike as soon as the Regina one has worn out. New HD timing chain went into the race bike a few weeks ago.
High quality thank you
Regards Mike

You will have to get rid of that funny sticker on your swing arm as well. Dereck

Dereck, thanks for organising the chains, yes Regina sticker will go once the IWIS goes on.
Had better luck at Manfield with 3 x 3rds and 1 x 4th in class, different to when you saw the bike in the back of the van and Hampton Downs!!
Pulled it apart before going to Manfield, to find nothing major, rehoned the bores as they were hanging on to much oil and carboning up the head and piston crowns.
Running sweet now.
Regards Mike

Thanks guys its nice to get some feed back.

Andy

andychain said:

Just a word of warning...there is a push by dealers for a chain branded Elite. It usually comes
in a real nice box but nowhere will it say "made in China" and you will pay premium prices, although
it comes onto the market at a low price.

Click to expand...

Elite chain is manufactured by Iwis. Iwis make Elite industrial chain, which they don't warrant for motorcycles, and Elite Motorcycle Chain which they do warrant. I imagine dealers are pushing for chain that they can sell with the confidence of the manufacturer.

The Elite brand is Chinese manufactured, the iwis brand is manufactured in Germany. iwis
purchased the company Flexon and inherited the Elite brand name originally produced by
DONG Hua.

On a recent trip to Munich I had the follwoing discussion, "I have the iwis M106SL on my
Bandit 1200, it has been on 3 years and I ride like a hooligan. Would you like me to run
an Elite on it?"...........answer form them NO.

I would actually make more profit from selling the Elite but I choose not to.

It may be fine industrially but for motorcycles !!!!!!!!

It may be worth asking the question "If it is so good why produce the iwis brand?"

There are many budget brands out there so take your pick but after dealing with iwis
for 40 years (30 as managing director in the UK) I will sell the iwis brand and sleep at night.

Andy

Its really funny. I sell good quality products from my shop in Kerikeri, even stuff made in Germany [ not motorcycle stuff ] . People would rather buy cheaper products than pay a bit more for a better product. There are however more discerning buyers who come in insisting on buy Italian or Spanish [ where the best are made ] and don't want a bar of the Chinese stuff. [ not all Chinese stuff is bad though ]

Dereck

I have never bad mouthed Chinese, Indian, Tawain etc etc, if you took parts
made in these countries out of my Volvo it would not run.

What I want is tranparency so clients can make an informed choice and terms
like "made to European standard" with no mention of country of origin sucks.

Andy

Myself, I am sold on the chains that Andy supplies...I mounted one on my 1974 Commando last fall and it fit correctly, preventing rubbing of gearbox and solved my lack of adjustment on rear wheel...This chain has been used for a season of riding and has barely stretched at all...I keep the chain clean and lubed but feel that a cheaper chain would be in much worse shape by now...I just received a primary chain and drive chain for my 1967 Atlas and am confident it is of the same quality...I feel that a few extra dollars spent outweigh the cost of replacing a broken gearbox...

Thankyou

The same drive train will have same drag loss no matter what power is turning it so total drag factor per rpm remains constant but the percentage of engine power will change with every engine and every change on each engine. Belt drive has some less maintenance and less mass inertial advantage but less drag is not one of them. Lube in chain is mainly to flush internal produced and external induced grit out to reduce wear but does not reduce friction but adds friction d/t oil shearing though can help spread heat and many oil layers help cushion combustion spikes. Belts therefore transmit more shock loads than oiled chain. Going by couple decades of Norton power reports and recent summary by comnoz implies we can use 4.5 hp drive train loss at peak power/rpm to add back to rwhp for shaft power bragging rights.

Is belt more efficient than chain? Realize peddle freaks can tell if their water bottle or hair is not aligned well.
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/news/a ... ter-36074/
According to Jason Smith at Friction Facts, the answer is no. By his measurements, a conventional chain drive consumes 2.92 watts on average, while the belt eats up 3.93 watts. Although the difference is just 1 watt – not enough for most people to care – this works out as a substantial 34.6 percent.

hobot huhu or honest facts?
http://www.borgwarner.com/en/enews/Asse ... 202012.pdf
Conclusions Chains are often the best solution for timing drives due to:
 Minimized Package
 Optimized Efficiency
 Robustness Against Dynamic Instability
 Proven Long Term Field Durability
 Proven Adaptability Across Multiple Variants

save hu huing hobot on real reason-function of lube in chains - notice no mention of friction reduction just grit flushing for less wear and maybe secondary heat conduction away but can just a well carry more engine heat into chain, which is more what happens in Norton primary. Peel rear drive chain got hotter faster oiled than dry, but who would believe it here. .

There is mention in this article of significant drag reduction using thinner oil but no dry chain comparison.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Rea ... lubricants
Need for Lubrication
Chain lubrication is needed mainly to slow the wear between the pins and bushings in the chain joints, to flush out wear debris and foreign materials, and to smooth the chain’s engagement with the sprocket. Additionally, lubrication may be needed to inhibit rust and corrosion, to carry away heat, and to cushion impact forces.

hobot and others have tested dry vs oiled final drive chain to know that if not flooding chain with constant bath or splattering constant effective drip like factory oiler then mainly wasting time money and environmental pollution than anything else. To contest my statement just reveals common sense ignorance on chains.

Importantly, both chains have stiff links, those of the dry lubed chain being less obvious because it is fitted to a fixed wheel bike and cannot articulate to the same degree between sprocket and chainwheel. However, the dry-lubed chain ran much more smoothly afterwards with no “gritty” feel and even without the further application of lube soon freed off. The wet-lubed chain felt awful and needed a good clean before it would run smoothly.
Read more at http://roadcyclinguk.com/blogs/davids-b ... vQAVV8T.99

Back in the day when I rode my bike all the time because I had no auto, I was quite religious about lube and adjustment. I tried just about every chain lube known at the time. I liked the graphite-in-light-oil types not sprayed on but applied from a little tin, drip drip. You didnt waste any and you could ensure it went into each link. But after a while it was impossible to find. Spray was the thing. Sprays waste too much.
But the idea of using light oil to get the graphite into the chain was a good idea and after initial slinging of oil they ran pretty dry and clean.
So perhaps dry has its advantages.
For most of us I suspect the cleanliness of an X-ring chain is its greatest plus. Its the mess of the standard oil chain that is so unpleasant.

Ugh- best chain preserving practice is nasty & ancient - as nothing beats regular stirring chain in heated solvent like diesel or paraffin then dunking in heated to liquid graphited grease, hung up to drip while 2nd chain being used.

Maybe BSA had the best plan with their later Super Rockets as well as some other models - a fully enclosed rear chain with a little access portal for lubing. You can lube generously without fear of oil getting all over the shiny wheels and clean frame. Also, no road grit ever gets on the chain.
Even an unsealed chain should last eons with that setup, as long as lubing is performed.

Even the driest type chain wax /lube still seems to mess up the rims with an open chain.

Glen

Oh my Glen you melted my gritty heart picturing an oil bath rear chain for Commandos. Unless bike essentially designed around this it would likely be nightmare constructing sealing servicing headache worse than just setting factory oiler to actually do its job designed from too long a tradition of those unable to own a sensible car.
I know I like loose as a goose normal wear dry plain chain better than newly oiled or O or X ring. I really dislike grime especially the greasy kind and Commandos seem so easy to all look so silly slupid obsolete ungainly when dirty I may be OCD or vampire like detailing ordering tendencies so rarely satisfied. Peel had a splash plate, 4 mudflaps plus chain grime sheld between swing arm and primary cast lip as well as the little after thot factory add on the end. Primary and cam chain quality and care is one thing but I am fed up with rear chains fast wear and teeth too - similar to tires on THE Grinder - so shop ahead for bulk bargains.

All original one owner 1963 Super Rocket on it's way here next week. It has this chain enclosure. Might be worth copying for the Commando.

Reminds me, in the early eighties I enclosed the rear chain on my Mk3.
Used these rubber chain guard tunnels that MZ two-stokes had.
A casing at the rear made out of stainless sheet metal with a big V-ring as seal, to keep the grease inside.
Can' t remember what it looked like at the front.

An enclosed chain pretty much dictates an automatic oiler.

slowrider I am floored you were able to adapt enclosed Commando chain and shoots you near top of my list of capable creative engineers. If enclosed I would think eliminates a lot of the need for any lube as shields from road grit so only milder internal grit wearing, which if only mildly non slinging oiled tends to collect internal grit grinding paste. i have tried all methods of chain preserving to state 4 ways work best for me, flooding chain by oil bath, constant oil drip mess, sealed chain or bone dry as anything in between from grinding paste and too much chain slack after each short ride. In the end I gave up for cheap bulk plain chain roll, changed out with only the drum teeth preserving in mind. Did a bit of sleepy time calculations of my time and cost of solvents polluting chain cleaning to decide not worth it in any way measured to me or environment. BTW I have noticed teeth tend to last longer the looser the links are so settles down in valleys better with chain slack flopping over rough surfaces.

http://www.bikemaster.com/chain/530-sta ... -link.html
http://www.flatlandmotorcyclecompany.co ... dview.html
http://www.amazon.com/RK-530-Heavy-Duty ... B0022WLXAU