boyer oh boyer

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illf8ed!
Youre right.....Had forgotten the name...but if they have stopped making them...then the question is mute which we will have to deal with in the future. I have been happy with my Boyer, mostly because it has held the timing now since 1976....they are naturally riskier than points.....when they break, they break all the way....but years of not having to set and file points has had it's advantage too. Maybe I will buy a spare though sometime. That will guarentee at least that nothing will break.....nothing ever does....when you have a spare......hewhoistoolazytologin.....
 
Hey Guest,

You mean you were able to "set & forget a boyer ignition" ?
Since 1976 mind you, that's 28 years isn't it ?

You must be joking man.............

I was starting to think I was the only other person that didn't have problems with boyer ignitions.

There are two of us now, pleased to meet you !

Maybe it is "user abuse" that causes all those others to fail ?
 
boyer

Hey Gang:
No more boyer jokes from me. I ride with a lot of norton buddies and they all have boyers. Virtually trouble free for a lot of years for the most part.I tryed my best to do a good installation, but probably been plaged by wiring of some sort. I will perservere next season to try again. At that point I will be consulting you guys to help me figure it out.
I know you guys are as glad as I am that Jerry has this site. I was trying to troubleshoot the boyer problem I had with general information. I am as stubborn as the next guy and the first to admit it.
Meanwhile I will be merrily flint and steeling it down the road.
Cheers
Bruce
 
Who really cares what ignition system anyone uses ?

As long as it works for them & they are happy is what matters.

Long live personal choice !
 
I am happy to own up to that last post.
Just cleaned out the system with Norton AV & wasn't logged in.
 
nortonfan
Not exactly......I said I set the timing in 76...(and it still is right on the money)...not that I had no trouble with the famous black box or the equally famous wiring on the sender unit. If you peek back a few entries in this forum......just one of my times, from the three, was mentioned in the note about hungry cows. Another time, it dropped dead about a hundred yards from home, and another time.....hummmm.... might have only been those two times. But when it went...it went ALL the way, no half way about it. Dead.
I still feel though, it is worth the saving all the monthly adjusting of the points to use the black box. And when the box works, it works well. I wouldn't go back to points. Might buy an extra box though, as I have the feeling it might be smart.
As you have so apptly pointed out though.....who cares which ignition a fellow uses.....as long as he is happy with it. What ever gets you through the night........Peace!
 
'What ever gets you through the night.'

Especially, the Dark, rainy ones.
 
I'm curious about what those of you still addicted to points are doing about the auto advance mechanism? I never had issues with the points themselves, but the advance mechanism would wear grooves at the point where the pins stopped at full advance. When this happened the ignition would stay at full advance, sometimes suddenly dropping back, giving an erratic idle. The cost of a new auto advance unit was nearly the same as an electronic ignition and lasted only a couple of riding seasons before it too began to wear and hang up. I have a box with about a half dozen units I have removed to replace with electronic ignitions and only one useable. I suppose you could dismantle them and braze/silver solder and file the slots back to shape.
 
Ron,

You raise a good point. (pun unintentional)

If one were to use the stock points or adapt something like a Dyna S http://www.dynaonline.com/english/sportbike_dynas.htm - you would still need the autoadvance to work properly.

One solution might be to chrome the autoadvance plate or have all of the bits in the unit coated, via vapor deposition, with a dry-film lubricant like molybdenum disulfide or titanium nitride. Chrome builds up pretty fast, so all to the holes where parts go together would need to be masked off or redrilled.

Done in bulk, the unit cost wouldn't be all that bad. Hmmmm...
 
Auto advance

Yeah, but the quality of the timing is still poor. In my experience, putting a timing light on a bike with the factory ignition will show lots if scatter, but with the Boyer, it's near perfect. I agree that the points are that much of an issue; if a really good advance unit were available I would probably go back to points.
 
Until DD builds his long-awaited RITA clone, its worth our time to consider alternatives. (dave - I'll *pre-pay* for a flash programmable unit. Right now. Just tell me where to send the check.)

My thinking is that if one wanted to use the autoadvance with a trigger, chroming the plate would help stop things from sticking and wearing. One could then dial-in the curve with heavier or lighter springs.

Just tossing that out there - that's all.
 
Holey smokes, flash cards on a Norton? This concept flies in the face of why I own a Norton. Perhaps I’m in the minority here but flash cards, microprocessors or any electronic claptrap are better suited for new BMWs, Corvettes or fancy toothbrushes. You see, Nortons to me are elegant and attractive in their simplicity, which is refreshing after being surrounded by electronic gizmos every day. So, to hang any electronic device on a Norton is travesty, in my mind.
 
Yep, does seem to fly in the face on that classic Nort'n simplicity.

However, for those of us with modified twins, timing to total advance and walking away doesn't make any sense. Why blueprint, dial-in and jet an engine and *not* spend some time on the ignition?

For example, one might want to be able to alter the total advance and curve slope to meet race track conditions (tractability, temperature, humidity, etc.), gear selection/engine load and fuel quality.

A suitable system might contain 2 potentiometers - a 5-position pot to alter the steepness, shallowness of the advance curve. For example: position 1 might be full advance at 2000 rpm, going up by 350 rpm increments until position 5 where the unit wouldn't be fully advanced until 3400 rpm.

The second 5-position pot might adjust the total amount of advance, possibly 20 through 30 begrees in 2 degree increments.

This would allow great flexibility for different road-courses, where, previously one's tuning might have been limited to carburetor jetting and advancing or retarding the total timing.

Not your cup of tea? I'm OK with that.

David
 
David, you might want to sit down with the AHRMA rulebook and have a good read before you fit your vintage racebike with that custom built flash-programmable microprocessor-controlled digital ignition. I suspect the tech inspectors might not be too keen on it.

If you want all that technology, why not just buy an R6 or something? Would be a lot easier to replace when you crash it at the track too. Just go down to the dealer and buy another one. Falling is a part of racing you know.

Debby
 
Awww... Debby, where's the fun in making an R6 fast? Its too fast as it is.

Isn't that the important part that I'm having a fantastic time updating my poorly maintained basketcase of a bike?

For my part, I respect and admire the daily-riders, the full-restos and the projects in progress, and hope that others on this board share my enthusiasm for the diversity of Nortons.

The only folks that rub me the wrong way are the retro-grouchs. However, even in the midst of their judgemental remarks, I keep it clean, state my case and strive to coexist.

Anyway, AHRMA rules clearly allow a RITA like Dave C's, and being able to reprogram the curve at trackside - with a laptop - is a huge improvement over the current Boyers. Kudos to him for taking this on.

9.7.15 IGNITION
a) Conversion to solid-state (pointless) ignition is permitted (e.g., Lucas Rita). Electronic engine-management systems are not permitted. Any system that provides dynamic (vehicle in motion) electronic adjustments via rider selection or any other means is illegal.

For now, I have a Boyer MkIII analog, which will soon use some stronger magnets in the rotor (a la Kelly Cork). Doesn't mean I can't dream of something better, does it?
 
You should post some before and after pics when it's all done. Sounds like it's going to be an impressive transformation!

Personally, I enjoy having my bike more or less original. I guess I enjoy its refreshingly primitive technology. I've got nothing against making improvements here and there however. I'm currently replacing the TLS front brake with a disk (maybe it will finally be done next week!) and when the AA wears out I'll probably go electronic. It's the sensible thing to do at that point (no pun intended).

I don't like the idea of having a USB port on my Norton - just doesn't sound right to me :) But having the ability to fine tune the advance curve would be nice. Maybe then I could finally tune out that annoying off-idle ping.

Debby
 
Anonymous said:
Jack,

If Debby won’t, I will: I told you so!

Boyer ignition systems are superior to points-ignition, in theory. Historically, however, the Boyer system has proven to be quite the opposite. The one and only Boyer system I owned caused way more grief than all my points-ignition systems combined. Deb reports that someone is peddling a redundant Boyer system. Should one unit fail, you simply switch over to the backup system. Sounds like a worthwhile investment if you’re planning on sticking with that diabolical Boyer.

Having said all that, don’t overlook the obvious when troubleshooting your Boyer malady. For example, is the spark plug and wire OK? What about all other wires dedicated to the dead cylinder? A simple check with an ohm meter should be all that’s needed to indict the guilty component.

Jason
Click to expand...

So why stick with a Boyer ignition. Can't another brand help, like the IIS they put on those wonderful Laverdas. Surely another brand will work as well or better. What about "Moto Witt "!

What's the big deal with Boyer. Why stick with them if they are " ordinary.

Anyway, is there a way to make a commando run well continuously

Thanks :)
 
Guest said......

"Anyway, is there a way to make a commando run well continuously"

Yes, it is called common sense.

You need common sense & some mechanical/electrical experience to correct the minor imperfections commandos may have.

Also, myself and many others that use boyers get many years use out of them working perfectly. Unfortunately, there seem to be 2 -3 forum users that continually denigrate the use of boyer ignition which is not a true indication of how good the product really is. The boyer ignition is a very good ignition system.

My bikes have boyer & K81s & I manage to still get around the "posers" with their "better" ritas & "avon venoms" :lol:

So all the "discussions" about em just make me laugh. And that is a good thing :!:
 
Dr_Hiller,

Please tell me this is not your only bike.

If I lived where you do (especially this time of year), I'd be whackin' the thing together with what ever parts I had, get my butt down over the Tacoma Narrows, and riding those roller coasters on the west side of Puget Sound. Who cares about HP on those roads??? All you need is good tires on something that handles!!!

Gotta walk before you can run!! (my $0.02 CDN)


Watching jealously from my snowbank (with my Boyer),

Derek
 
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