anti sump failure..........(2015)

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manx850

manx850

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This morning I took a mk3 I recently aquired out for a run went a bout 8 miles & he motor stopped running. After getting it home an inspection revealed a full oil tank of cold oil.....someone had fitted an anti drain valve, the metal & plastic type......this had split apart so no oil was being fed. After fitting a piece of new hose it started but it was obvious the big ends were shot. An expensive engine rebuild is now necessary, heat and vibration no doubt caused this failure there was no visible glue of any sort....seems very poorly made. It was a hot day 90 plus in CA...I would advise anyone who has this piece of shit fitted to their bike to remove it ASAP...a $20 dollar item could now cost $2000 TO PUT RIGHT.....THAT MOTOR PROBABLY HAD LESS THAN A THOUSAND MILES ON IT..................WTF
 
There was another similar happening here with an automatic valve recently, plus I posted about a Deer 880 having the same kind of catastrophic event via an automatic type valve about a month ago.
The "automatic" spring and ball type valves on the feed side are a real bad idea, not sure why they are still being made, sold and installed.

Glen
 
Hmmmm, kind of like this one:

anti sump failure..........(2015)
 
Count your blessings that valve saved the dreaded hydro lock kick offs, leaks from poorly sealed cases or a poor crank seal blown out to hi heavens. Tough luck like me being a lazy slip shod owner with a nice runner and not immediately going though it stem to stern. Another example of a radioactive item, some percentage will fail randomly till less and less of them left.
 
YEP, I killed my 750 with a ball valve. You only gotta forget to turn it on once.
Going through the rebuild now. At least I got to spend lotsa $'s on some great JS parts :D Got Mike at AMR to retrofit my oil pump and timing case and added a CNW breather while she is down.
Just love spendin $$ on my Commando, not.
JUG
Oh, BTW, Will post pics of the rebuild. Hope all goes well with yours.
 
I have a manual valve that touches the kicker when closed AND an oil pressure gauge behind headlamp which I monitor out of habit.
Good combo.
No wet sumping OR worries.
 
Suction valves, ball valves, ignition interlock valves (hideous looking contraptions).... all much ado about nothing.

They sump, period. Take the 2 mins too drain the bloody thing if it bothers you that much.
 
Most fail safe fool proof wet sump setter and tooless excess oil collector is a spigot off rear TS cover with a valve and to leave open on long-ish parking into pan/bottle then shut off pour oil in tank and get it on. Will not get far w/o noticing the R boot oiling or spitting out excess oil already through enigne so reach down and shut off and carry on. Could just tap in an oil temp dial left out to drool in pan then screwed in to glance at for exiting oil temps or the fly.
 
I ruined a nice rebuilt BSA engine when it came back from the rebuilder with an SRM "anti-sumping valve" on it, supposedly automatic. I wouldn't have installed it but he was extolling the benefits of it so I went along. "Mom, everyone ELSE is doing it, why can't I have one?"

Worked for a few months. I happened to look down at my oil pressure gauge on a ride (an add-on for diagnostic purposes) and found it reading 0.

Trucked the bike home, took the valve out of the line, and the oil pressure came back up. But the big-ends and crank bushing were done in 5000 miles.

Rule #1, whether you are designing a marine diesel or a motorcycle ... do NOT put a check valve in the suction line of an oil pump! Any hydraulic engineer knows that; I don't know why we keep doing it or why they keep selling such things. Disaster waiting to happen.

Lannis
 
2 days of labor plus parts & any thing else that is found, maybe 2000 for a first class job & peace of mind, a lot to pay for a worthless piece of shit engineering that is more trendy than practical.....all these items should be removed & crushed in my opinion! As far as the manual valves go I have never seen anything quite that ugly.......looks like it belongs in a boiler room of a ship........Just start the bike regularly..and if anyone knows what Hobot is talking about translate it & let & let me know!..............
 
manx850 said:
..and if anyone knows what Hobot is talking about translate it & let & let me know!..............
Click to expand...

I think he says you can incorporate a radiator drain petcock (or the like) into your timing cover. Leaving it on as your bike sets for extended times to let any wet sumping just drain into a pan. When you get ready to ride, just poor it into the tank and off you go.
In addition, he says that it you forget to shut the petcock off, your boot and pant leg will surely let you know before it gets too late.

Best guess and I am pretty good at interpretation of hobotese.
 
this has been rehashed on here so many times it will make your head spin and I am one that also warns that it is a POS and NOT to use it. some want to listen to the snake oil salesman that peddles these things as the best thing since sliced bread, heck it will even cure wart's :roll:

Lannis said:
Rule #1, whether you are designing a marine diesel or a motorcycle ... do NOT put a check valve in the suction line of an oil pump! Any hydraulic engineer knows that; I don't know why we keep doing it or why they keep selling such things. Disaster waiting to happen.

Lannis
Click to expand...
 
Aw man I would rather have my seal blown than fit a radiator drain yet on second thought could polish up for steampunk style and mount compactly - maybe. Actually what i pictured was a nipple fitting with a short hose om ;ome with frame and a nice chrome or brass dome head bolt in it as plug. Have not examined area for such placement though as wet sump is a non issue to me and my Combats. I just know to add some oil anyway if set up long and wait till run abit to see if time for more. Peel has oil in spine high head so her valve gets in way of peg and kicker if not opened. It was a brass gas valve but now a chrome toilet supply valve but still working on wood handle.
 
I think I will stick with draining the sump. It only takes a few minutes. Well worth the time and trouble.
 
I just ordered an anti-sump valve that opens and closes manually on e-bay from Massachusetts. Here is the key point - the shut-off valve handle completes an electric circuit for starting the engine of my 1973 Norton Commando 850 Roadster. If the rider forgets to turn the valve prior to starting, the motorcycle will not start. The valve is essentially a kill switch so the rider does not forget to open the valve prior to taking off on the motorcycle ! This may a good solution to this anti-sump problem ! I will keep everyone posted !
 
Winberry61 said:
If the rider forgets to turn the valve prior to starting, the motorcycle will not start.
Click to expand...

You do not need a new valve / switch to do this. Some owners achieve this anyway ;) !!

Regarding your oil valve, such threads can generate interest at times...
 
Winberry61 said:
I just ordered an anti-sump valve that opens and closes manually on e-bay from Massachusetts. Here is the key point - the shut-off valve handle completes an electric circuit for starting the engine of my 1973 Norton Commando 850 Roadster. If the rider forgets to turn the valve prior to starting, the motorcycle will not start.
Click to expand...

also available on ebay.co.uk.
 
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