961 is back !

Stephen_Spencer said:

I don’t think the ‘mature’ rider who buys the V4 will be too concerned that it’s down a few HP on the Ducati/Aprilia premium track weapons. It is advertised as a road bike with track cred. This buyer will recognise that the Norton V4 is bloody quick, quicker than you could ever use on the road and he/she will likely intend to go nowhere near the track.

The Norton marque is still the holy grail for many bikers (despite some abortive attempts at resurrection) in many countries, but especially the UK. The history and heritage are very important to a lot of people, including me. I don’t know, but do you guys in the US feel the same way about the Harley - genuine question?

Buyers of this bike are not looking for the machine with the highest stats, they want a British bike - they want a Norton. They also want prestige and exclusivity. When you spend 44K you don’t want to pull up next to another three at your local biker cafe. They also want premium components presented as such, carbon and billet and not acres of plastic panels that make one bike almost indistinguishable from the next. I don’t think Norton will expect to sell massive numbers of the V4 but they certainly needed a flagship bike and the V4 was there for the taking.

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Voodoo made a good argument. Norton is unknown and even if you will "unfamous" here unless you are older or really into vintage british.

and I don't know about in the UK but if you are buying a 54000USD bike plus another 5500 in tax, title, fees etc so lets call it 60k you really are getting into rarefied air. Even in a motorcycle heavy area like we are in Los Angeles, that would be a hard sell.

I say that then we also went through the late 90's early 2000's chopper craze of people spending 80k on bikes you couldn't ride more than a few miles and then the money that's currently spent on upgrading Harleys. But again upgrading a 15k bike is a little different.

Stephen_Spencer said:

Buyers of this bike are not looking for the machine with the highest stats, they want a British bike - they want a Norton. They also want prestige and exclusivity. When you spend 44K you don’t want to pull up next to another three at your local biker cafe. They also want premium components presented as such, carbon and billet and not acres of plastic panels that make one bike almost indistinguishable from the next. I don’t think Norton will expect to sell massive numbers of the V4 but they certainly needed a flagship bike and the V4 was there for the taking.

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but buyers at that level also expect premium level of service which very few dealers can afford to do. And how many times do you want to bring your bike "back to the factory".

Come to California, you are guaranteed to see three right next to each other.

Stephen_Spencer said:

I don’t think the ‘mature’ rider who buys the V4 will be too concerned that it’s down a few HP on the Ducati/Aprilia premium track weapons. It is advertised as a road bike with track cred. This buyer will recognise that the Norton V4 is bloody quick, quicker than you could ever use on the road and he/she will likely intend to go nowhere near the track.

The Norton marque is still the holy grail for many bikers (despite some abortive attempts at resurrection) in many countries, but especially the UK. The history and heritage are very important to a lot of people, including me. I don’t know, but do you guys in the US feel the same way about the Harley - genuine question?

Buyers of this bike are not looking for the machine with the highest stats, they want a British bike - they want a Norton. They also want prestige and exclusivity. When you spend 44K you don’t want to pull up next to another three at your local biker cafe. They also want premium components presented as such, carbon and billet and not acres of plastic panels that make one bike almost indistinguishable from the next. I don’t think Norton will expect to sell massive numbers of the V4 but they certainly needed a flagship bike and the V4 was there for the taking.

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So you think Norton is the only brand to have a history?
Remember when Norton used to win races? Don’t you think that means a lot?

When’s the last time Norton won anything?
Winning races sells automobiles and motorcycles.

People buy performance and people also buy deals. I mean I love Norton for it’s history and it’s glamor, but we’re a rare crowd. $44k is a lot of money, but a Ducati, Mv, Aprilia,,BMW, etc all make bikes that are less than $44k and some in the $100k range.

The Norton V4 is down more than a few horsepower compared to the competition. Ever hear of win on Sunday sell on Monday?

How many V4 bikes do you think Norton will sell? Say in the next 5 years? I say less than 500.

I mean in my opinion Harley sucks and I own one.
Harley is so deattached from racing reality it’s hilarious. Harley literally caters to one rider, cruisers. They don’t even know what racing is anymore. Sure, they’re in the battle of the baggers and flat track and drag racing, but show me a new bike in their line up that has anything near a sport or race bike. They only make bikes that are designed around Easy Rider.

Alas, none of this matters for the USA market. It wont make it here unless they are imported for "racing" only

If you haven't watched it, find the documentary on Motorcycle Designer Michael Czysz Birth of a Racer. He was a little ahead of his time but the story is good. Sort of the Elon Musk of motorcycles, spending all his wealth on building things

He went from designing GP bike to electric. Died a few years back from rare cancer.

https://www.roadracingworld.com/news/rip-racer-motorcycle-designer-architect-michael-czysz/​

Voodooo said:

When’s the last time Norton won anything?
Winning races sells automobiles and motorcycles.

The Norton V4 is down more than a few horsepower compared to the competition. Ever hear of win on Sunday sell on Monday?

How many V4 bikes do you think Norton will sell? Say in the next 5 years? I say less than 500.

I mean in my opinion Harley sucks and I own one.
Harley is so deattached from racing reality it’s hilarious. Harley literally caters to one rider, cruisers. They don’t even know what racing is anymore. Sure, they’re in the battle of the baggers and flat track and drag racing, but show me a new bike in their line up that has anything near a sport or race bike. They only make bikes that are designed around Easy Rider.

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Yes true, win on Sunday sell on Monday, this does drive sales, especially for the young.
But the young, will not be buying a ￡44K motorcycle, an older gentlemen with considerable disposable income will.
They want to own something that makes a statement, "I can afford an exclusive motorcycle."
Also, if you're British, the Norton badge has a significant heritage, and allure.

I don't know how many V4SVs Norton will sell, but if they better move their asses and get them out the door already!

You can't compare Harley to any other brand. It's not just about a motorcycle, it's about a life style, and state of mind.
I don't claim to understand it, but it does captivate some.

BritTwit said:

Yes true, win on Sunday sell on Monday, this does drive sales, especially for the young.
But the young, will not be buying a ￡44K motorcycle, an older gentlemen with considerable disposable income will.
They want to own something that makes a statement, "I can afford an exclusive motorcycle."
Also, if you're British, the Norton badge has a significant heritage, and allure.

I don't know how many V4SVs Norton will sell, but if they better move their asses and get them out the door already

You can't compare Harley to any other brand. It's not just about a motorcycle, it's about a life style, and state of mind.
I don't claim to understand it, but it does captivate some.

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Lol. What’s your idea of young?
Ever see a young guy owning a Lamborghini or Ferrari or a $100k ducati?
The richest people today are some of the youngest people.

Stephen_Spencer said:

I don’t think the ‘mature’ rider who buys the V4 will be too concerned that it’s down a few HP on the Ducati/Aprilia premium track weapons. It is advertised as a road bike with track cred. This buyer will recognise that the Norton V4 is bloody quick, quicker than you could ever use on the road and he/she will likely intend to go nowhere near the track.

The Norton marque is still the holy grail for many bikers (despite some abortive attempts at resurrection) in many countries, but especially the UK. The history and heritage are very important to a lot of people, including me. I don’t know, but do you guys in the US feel the same way about the Harley - genuine question?

Buyers of this bike are not looking for the machine with the highest stats, they want a British bike - they want a Norton. They also want prestige and exclusivity. When you spend 44K you don’t want to pull up next to another three at your local biker cafe. They also want premium components presented as such, carbon and billet and not acres of plastic panels that make one bike almost indistinguishable from the next. I don’t think Norton will expect to sell massive numbers of the V4 but they certainly needed a flagship bike and the V4 was there for the taking.

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I agree 100%
Just now I see Norton's history as this
In days of yor
Norton's badge of honor was the UNAPPROACHABLE NORTON

Then along came SG and Norton's reputation soon changed to UNRELIABLE

Now in TVS'S hands it became the UNAVAILABLE
and now the UNAFFORDABLE!

The bike is actually on sale now tho boyz, so there’s little point in the continued debate about how many they’ll sell and to whom. Just sit back and watch and we’ll soon find out !

Also… something occurred to me… the 961 is now open for ‘expression of interest’… if we all got all our friends and family to ’express interest’ Norton would get the thing sorted and into production for sure !!

Fast Eddie said:

The bike is actually on sale now tho boyz, so there’s little point in the continued debate about how many they’ll sell and to whom. Just sit back and watch and we’ll soon find out !

Also… something occurred to me… the 961 is now open for ‘expression of interest’… if we all got all our friends and family to ’express interest’ Norton would get the thing sorted and into production for sure !!

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I’ve already registered, but I wonder if they will sell abroad with no dealer backup?

Voodooo said:

So you think Norton is the only brand to have a history?
Remember when Norton used to win races? Don’t you think that means a lot?

When’s the last time Norton won anything?
Winning races sells automobiles and motorcycles.

People buy performance and people also buy deals. I mean I love Norton for it’s history and it’s glamor, but we’re a rare crowd. $44k is a lot of money, but a Ducati, Mv, Aprilia,,BMW, etc all make bikes that are less than $44k and some in the $100k range.

The Norton V4 is down more than a few horsepower compared to the competition. Ever hear of win on Sunday sell on Monday?

How many V4 bikes do you think Norton will sell? Say in the next 5 years? I say less than 500.

I mean in my opinion Harley sucks and I own one.
Harley is so deattached from racing reality it’s hilarious. Harley literally caters to one rider, cruisers. They don’t even know what racing is anymore. Sure, they’re in the battle of the baggers and flat track and drag racing, but show me a new bike in their line up that has anything near a sport or race bike. They only make bikes that are designed around Easy Rider.

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Obviously other marques have history Voodoo, but we are talking about Norton. The history/heritage element of a British bike, particularly at home, still matters to many. It is nothing to do with current racing nor when Norton last won a race. It is not Norton’s racing pedigree in the 50’s and 60’s that will sell 961’s or the Atlas - or even the V4 for that matter. Although racing is a key part of Norton‘s history

There remains a memory or recognition if you like of what British motorcycle manufacturers managed to achieve back in the day, when the UK was the centre of the motorcycling world. Norton, amongst others, were prominent in this effort and many are still drawn by the heritage of these marques to this day - in particular Norton and Triumph. Yes the bikes will have to be top drawer, but I strongly suspect that the heritage/exclusivity angle matters more to a certain group of people than a horsepower comparison with the latest Ducati rocket ship. Only time will tell how big that group is, but I would’nt classfy them as a ‘rare crowd’.

Brands like Norton do not only appeal to those old enough to have been around in the heyday. Young people are always looking for something a bit different, a bit niche, a bit off piste, a bit different to ‘the norm’, something that separates ‘them’ from ’the masses’.

So I’d say there is a definite opportunity there for Norton.

Also, as was referenced in an earlier post.
Norton have do advertising, like getting some celebrities onboard to help push the product.
Remember Clint Eastwood on a Norton on break while filming Kelly's Heros.
How about Tom Cruise riding Triumphs in movies.
Etc, etc., etc...........
And of course, a little print advertisement targeted to the male audience in men's magazines.
Hot young ladies, scantily clad, fawning around middle aged, balding men, riding new Nortons.
Priceless.

I thought this all could have been handled better than it was. We owners of previous Norton 961's should have been regarded as future owners of their new bikes. I feel let down somehow , or maybe left behind would be a better phrase.

TonyA said:

I thought this all could have handled better than it was. We owners of previous Norton 961's should have been regarded as future owners of their new bikes. I feel let down somehow , or maybe left behind would be a better phrase.

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You know Tony , that's actually a good point. They should have reached out to owners or had a portal where with a proper VIN you could communicate with factory.

Fast Eddie said:

Also… something occurred to me… the 961 is now open for ‘expression of interest’… if we all got all our friends and family to ’express interest’ Norton would get the thing sorted and into production for sure !!

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Just showed my interest on their website.

It still not too late ! The opportunities are endless , for example trade up for a deal . Or verified prevoius owners get 15% off new TVS 961. Give us something for goodnees sake , anything else is just pure arrogance in my view . Just a letter stating this to all previus owners , tell us what you fixed and why its worth getting the TVS 961 .

TonyA said:

It still not too late ! The opportunities are endless , for example trade up for a deal . Or verified prevoius owners get 15% off new TVS 961. Give us something for goodnees sake , anything else is just pure arrogance in my view . Just a letter stating this to all previus owners , tell us what you fixed and why its worth getting the TVS 961 .

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Capital idea!
Hopefully that would include international owners as well as those in the UK.

Not aiming this at anyone but please don't hang draw and quarter TVS until we see what they actually do !!!

baz said:

Not aiming this at anyone but please don't hang draw and quarter TVS until we see what they actually do !!!

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I don't think anyone is....yet The problem is I think there is only a handful of us guys, chaps, blokes, mates or whatever it is is your world. waiting on this!! Look at the other forums on 961's not many have interest and its the same few of us jabbering on.

I go back to what I've said before. How many 961's sold? I'm solidly in the TVS is making an electric play here and the few motorcycles they make are just placeholders until the electric tuk tuk is ready or electric apache. That's why they took UK money and are R&D heavy right now.

Id love to know what the "interest" really is because if you read the TVS financials, etc there is ZERO indication and that's unheard of when you put reports out to investors. You have phrases like "high growth potential" "our customer growth goals are". You need to show your investors what the upside is and just saying super premium doesn't cut it. Nothing saying we have a waiting list for expected products or loyal customer base that we anticipate purchasing our products or previous owners of such are brand loyal, etc. You don't sell any company product like that...ever. Imagine not advertising for something you making?

There is zero information about the "upside" and I personally wouldn't want any fund I'm invested in throwing money their way for Norton. I would invest in TVS but if Norton was a standalone, hell no.

I'm no Warren Buffet but that just smacks of bad business.