961 is back !

Stephen_Spencer said:

Clearly the US market is vital if an automotive manufacturer wants to go global and maximise volume - the US being the No1 biggest importer of motorcycles in the world. Initially though, I suspect Norton will concentrate closer to home.

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Which sucks lol. I’d buy a atlas if they ever offered it

Harley Davidson is a fashion brand as much as it is a bike brand. I still find it amazing that TVS/Norton aren't leveraging what is one of the most nostalgic brands there is - merchandising sales alone should be significant.

Want to gauge interest in which bikes to sell? Find out what merchandise sells. it's not hard.

BritTwit said:

Yeah, it seems from Dr. Bob's prior comments on the nature of future Norton factory support, it will be similar to the CCM model.

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No. They have invested way too much money already for a CCM type model to ever recoup. They will use this model to get started with the exotic / flagship / headline grabbing stuff, but they absolutely will be getting into the higher volume / dealer network / international market space. They simply have to with the sums invested.

Straying onto 961's for a moment, good that they have announced the re-release without feeling the need to issue a don't ride notice on the older ones - hoping like mad that i am not tempting fate here.

ntst8 said:

Straying onto 961's for a moment, good that they have announced the re-release without feeling the need to issue a don't ride notice on the older ones - hoping like mad that i am not tempting fate here.

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Never gonna happen nt - my guess is that Birmingham Norton are well aware of the effort (technical and financial) that has gone into making the 961 reliable (ish) by the current ownership. This is’nt a few poorly designed/manufactured V4’s sold over a relatively short period of time, it’s 2000+ 961’s that have been in circulation for 10 years+ and are spread across the globe. Good luck trying to get those guys to cease and desist!!

Fast Eddie said:

No. They have invested way too much money already for a CCM type model to ever recoup. They will use this model to get started with the exotic / flagship / headline grabbing stuff, but they absolutely will be getting into the higher volume / dealer network / international market space. They simply have to with the sums invested.

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Please, not the way of the Bolton boys. They are onto variation no 18!

Clearly many points here, no automotive manufacturer wants to supply spare parts other than service items - it's very costly to have stock of parts being kept warm and not knowing if they will be needed or not. Suzuki are now introducing a spares inventory for their 'classic' models as they have seen that end of the market supporting the bikes is now very rpofitable, but this is bikes over 20 years old that sold in masses.

The 961 and other classic styled bikes have no problem is selling, it makes sense to produce the 961, but the price charged in the past was too high. This day and age similar bikes are a lot less and made outside the UK and US. A new 961 would need to be considerably cheaper than it was under Garners reign, the competition against the 961 has improved and cheaper.

Reliability - should not be an issue with TVS at the helm, they produced bikes for Suzuiki for over 20 years and now produce the BMW G310 which seems to get the ideal reviews despite being BMW's bargain basement product.

A sensibly priced 961 would sell, no doubt about it.

Stephen_Spencer said:

Never gonna happen nt - my guess is that Birmingham Norton are well aware of the effort (technical and financial) that has gone into making the 961 reliable (ish) by the current ownership. This is’nt a few poorly designed/manufactured V4’s sold over a relatively short period of time, it’s 2000+ 961’s that have been in circulation for 10 years+ and are spread across the globe. Good luck trying to get those guys to cease and desist!!

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Also, an homologated model....the V4's were only ever msva'd

What has happened to the Nomad? I would have bought one , in fact I contacted the factory about them considered going to pick one up. I guess it's a dead issue!

mean gene said:

What has happened to the Nomad? I would have bought one , in fact I contacted the factory about them considered going to pick one up. I guess it's a dead issue!

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Frankly, I'm surprised that Dr. Bob didn't choose to produce the 650 Twins.
They would have been easy to position in the market place, given acceptable reliability, and price.
Actually I thought a new Commando (Next Gen) 750 would have been easy to produce from an enlarged 650 twin.
Oh well, back to the drawing board.

Stephen_Spencer said:

I also don’t think any prospective buyer needs to know who TVS are. Why would they, TVS just hold the wallet - they barely get a mention on the Norton website (beyond the history section).

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Ditto.
Best bet is for TVS is to stay in the background, and let the Norton moniker, hopefully attract the interest.
The style cues of the machines, or at least the 961, is classic Norton-esque, not modern Asian scooter styling.

BritTwit said:

Frankly, I'm surprised that Dr. Bob didn't choose to produce the 650 Twins.
They would have been easy to position in the market place, given acceptable reliability, and price.
Actually I thought a new Commando (Next Gen) 750 would have been easy to produce from an enlarged 650 twin.
Oh well, back to the drawing board.

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I think it’s a case of ‘watch this space’ BT. I don’t have a hat, but I will buy one so that I can eat it if Norton don’t market the Atlas Nomad/Ranger! A racing certainty IMO. Already developed, loads of interest, affordable to the masses and attractive to the younger rider - with Norton emblazoned on the tank! A No Brainer methinks! F@#k, I want one!

Stephen_Spencer said:

I think it’s a case of ‘watch this space’ BT. I don’t have a hat, but I will buy one so that I can eat it if Norton don’t market the Atlas Nomad/Ranger! A racing certainty IMO. Already developed, loads of interest, affordable to the masses and attractive to the younger rider - with Norton emblazoned on the tank! A No Brainer methinks! F@#k, I want one!

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Yeah, I like the idea of a small, lightweight, nimble bullet. The Superlight was a nice concept, but I'd like to see something like a more compact, lighter twin version of a Triumph Street Triple. A street, road machine, but a weapon on wheels, easy on the ergos, and lots of fun in the twistiest.

Stephen_Spencer said:

I think it’s a case of ‘watch this space’ BT. I don’t have a hat, but I will buy one so that I can eat it if Norton don’t market the Atlas Nomad/Ranger! A racing certainty IMO. Already developed, loads of interest, affordable to the masses and attractive to the younger rider - with Norton emblazoned on the tank! A No Brainer methinks! F@#k, I want one!

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You're almost right there…

The real benefit we’ll get if they proceed with the 650s is that we might still get the Superlight !!

Fast Eddie said:

I think that applies to the V4 and the (possible) twins. And it’s why I think they missed the mark with the V4 CR. I think they have more market coverage with a fully faired sports version and ergo friendly naked version of both the V4 SV and the Superlight.

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You already have a market saturated with these types. I think the economy and gas prices will play increasingly into TVS directions.

City Garage said:

You already have a market saturated with these types. I think the economy and gas prices will play increasingly into TVS directions.

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Yes, anyone chasing volume sales will have to pay heed there....

Seems a shame that with a V4 in the ranks as 'flagship' it appears (relatively) as neither so far ahead of the pack to justify the price, nor cheap enough to divert attention from it's not class leading performance..

Though I know not of what I speak!

City Garage said:

You already have a market saturated with these types. I think the economy and gas prices will play increasingly into TVS directions.

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That’s where the EV bike fits in lol

Just think. Nortons Halo bike, the V4, isn’t even competitive against the competition and it cost more too.

I don’t see how many Middle Aged or older guys are lining up to buy this bike. I think they should of done the Atlas bikes and the Commando first then the v4 or superlite.

Voodooo said:

Just think. Nortons Halo bike, the V4, isn’t even competitive against the competition and it cost more too.

I don’t see how many Middle Aged or older guys are lining up to buy this bike. I think they should of done the Atlas bikes and the Commando first then the v4 or superlite.

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That would be the superlite super premium bike good sir!

Voodooo said:

Just think. Nortons Halo bike, the V4, isn’t even competitive against the competition and it cost more too.

I don’t see how many Middle Aged or older guys are lining up to buy this bike. I think they should of done the Atlas bikes and the Commando first then the v4 or superlite.

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I don’t think the ‘mature’ rider who buys the V4 will be too concerned that it’s down a few HP on the Ducati/Aprilia premium track weapons. It is advertised as a road bike with track cred. This buyer will recognise that the Norton V4 is bloody quick, quicker than you could ever use on the road and he/she will likely intend to go nowhere near the track.

The Norton marque is still the holy grail for many bikers (despite some abortive attempts at resurrection) in many countries, but especially the UK. The history and heritage are very important to a lot of people, including me. I don’t know, but do you guys in the US feel the same way about the Harley - genuine question?

Buyers of this bike are not looking for the machine with the highest stats, they want a British bike - they want a Norton. They also want prestige and exclusivity. When you spend 44K you don’t want to pull up next to another three at your local biker cafe. They also want premium components presented as such, carbon and billet and not acres of plastic panels that make one bike almost indistinguishable from the next. I don’t think Norton will expect to sell massive numbers of the V4 but they certainly needed a flagship bike and the V4 was there for the taking.