I purchased a 1972 Commando in 1998 from BMW of Denver. I have the bill of sale and Colorado title from that purchase. This summer I relocated to New Mexico and have gone through the process of transferring titles of all my vehicles. The Norton should have been a slam dunk (or so I thought) because I have kept it registered and plated continuously in Colorado. Well when I went to the MVD office in New Mexico and they ran my title through the Colorado database it said that a new title was issued in 2016 and the new title superseded (purged) my title. I called Colorado DMV and was told over the phone to apply for a duplicate title which would purge any other titles. After applying for that I got a rejection letter stating that I should instead provide a new bill of sale for Purged Colorado Record. It seems like I'm getting the runaround from Colorado and I have a theory that the VIN is the issue. Since older British bikes used serial numbers and not modern VINs that are unique to each vehicle do you think that the same serial numbers could have been used by different manufacturers and that using the serial numbers as VINs could cause title issues like I have? I'm thinking about applying for a title search to find out make/model/year of the vehicle titled in 2016 using my Norton's serial number. Anyone else have issues like I have?
Thanks,
Doug
My bike has been essentially stolen even though I still have it. Here's the short version:
In 2005 a tractor was titled in MI with 310311 as the VIN (illegal - VINs by then must be 17 characters) The national system tracking VIN not yet in use.
In 2014 that tractor was sold to another MI company and the title transfered
In 1975 my Commando was imported from Scotland to PA - 310311
In 1977 my Commando was sold to the second owner in PA
In 2015 I bought my Commando and title is in VA without problem. It has been registered and insured ever since.
In 2022 the MI tractor was sold to another company in MI. Since it was a MI to MI transfer, they didn't bother with the national system.
VA now has a system that scans the national system looking for VA vehicles that have been sold. They use that rather that the required notification of sale by owners and summarily invalidate your title and registration. They do not bother to investigate or inform you. I happened to be on my online DMV account looking at something else when I noticed that my bike was shown as sold.
I call the DMV in Richmond (headquarters). That day I spent a couple of hours explaining to people that insisted it wasn't possible. Finally got a woman who would get me an answer in 48 hours after checking with MI. A week later, she left a message saying that my bike was titled in MI and nothing she could do.
That started a 9-hour phone session. Call VA, can do nothing - must call MI. Call MI, get cut off multiple times being transferred - each new call, explain, be told impossible. Call MI State Police to report the Grand Theft Auto or whatever they wanted to all it. Since not a MI resident, can do nothing - recommended I call the local police. Called the Fairfax country police. He investigated and cleared up one thing - it was not my motorcycle that was sold, and it was not a VA title that was transferred to MI, it was a MI tractor transferred to a new MI owner - neither the VA or MI DMS told me that. OK with that new info called the VA DMV back and once I finally (2 hours) got the woman back on the phone was nastily told that VA can do nothing, I must be fixed by MI. Called MI and FINALLY got a "technician" on the phone with the power to fix it. He at least understood the issue quickly but explain that the f'ing national system goes by the VIN alone so unless he can get a VIN check that disputes the tractor VIN, there no way to fix it.
That was 6 weeks ago - crickets.
Wrote to my state representative 21 days ago, crickets - not even an acknowledgment of the email.
Looks like I'll be parting my bike out. It's illegal to ride. Cannot be titled in the US. Cannot prove ownership to sell it outside the US.
No, VA will not allow me to re-title it with a new number. No, they won't let me retitle it with the frame number. They probably would allow a reconstructed title but then it would be a 2022 bike and would have to have standard plates, sales tax, personal property take annually, and would be a mess for my estate to sell when I'm gone.
So, if you own a properly titled Commando in the US, be scared, be very scared. At any moment, without warning, your state government can invalidate your title and registration. I'm very glad I didn't find out by being pulled over by a cop! As it is, officially, it's illegal for me to garage in Fairfax County since it's unregistered and a cop would consider it unregistered with a fake plate, and probably stolen.
Why doesn't this happen more? Other manufactures didn't just use 6 numbers. 1957-mid 1969 Triumphs were Hxxxxx (500cc) or DUxxxxx (650cc) and later they were made of three parts: Model, 2-character month of manufacture and then serial: the 70 Bonneville I have is T120RXD34675 and that is VERY clearly stamped into the frame and engine.
BTW, I keep saying national system. I've asked both VA and MI where they are looking up VINs and all they will say is "the national system". I would like to figure out what that is!
