75 Electric start Commando - can't kick start it

My latest Norton is electric start (never had one before) and it works very well. I've owned many Nortons and have always had the knack to kick them over. I sometimes had some big dudes try and fail, while I could. They just didn't have the technique. I thought it might be due to wet sumping, but I make sure it is drained. I put in new spark plugs, new battery, adjusted valves, adjusted timing both static and finally with a gun. Single Mikuni carb. Boyer ignition. I've either had points or a TriSpark on previous Nortons. She fires right up with the electric start. I'm sensing that there is more drag with the starter setup that I've never encountered before. Any thoughts? I sure don't want my starter to fail and not be able to kickstart

Do you have the same difficulty hot, or is it only with a cold engine? If it's only when cold I wonder whether you're inadvertently opening the throttle when you kick it through - which I believe takes the choke circuit out of play on a Mikuni. With my 850/Mikuni I kick it through once with the ignition off but choke on and no throttle, and then turn the ignition on and give it a healthy kick, again with choke on but no throttle and it fires straight up. I'm sure others with more knowledge will offer additional advice.

I'll try bsaboss, but I think it does not matter hot or cold. Yeah I'm paranoid about opening that Mikuni, had it on my 74' with no starting issues, was always able to kick it on the 1st or 2nd kick. thank you

bsanorton said:

She fires right up with the electric start. I'm sensing that there is more drag with the starter setup that I've never encountered before. Any thoughts?

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Have you tried kicking it over with the spark plugs out as that might give you an idea if there's more than the usual amount of drag?

Unless the starter sprag is dragging on the crank gear then the starter mechanism should not be causing any drag. One possibility on the Mk3 would be the hydraulic primary chain tensioner plungers but I wouldn't think they would cause much drag.

Very interesting LAB, on occasion I hear what sounds like a slap in that area when I hit the starter button, but it never fails to fire up the engine...

I've had electric Nortons for many years and was told to always kickstart a cold engine, then when the motor is warm use the button, that advice has always worked for me.
sam

Check your kickstarter lever position. If it is mounted too far forward, you will not get good leverage on the down stroke.
Pull it off and rotate it a spline or two counter clockwise until compression starts at about 90 deg. This gives you full force on the lever and is
much easier to push through. I weigh 150 pounds and kick mine no trouble. (relatively, it still requires a jump, not just a push).
Jaydee

Sam, I really wish I could. I do kick through it a few times and try, then I have to resort to hitting the button. I'll check Jay. I'm ready to rip out the Boyer and go with a TriSpark, frustrating. I've always owned a Norton since 1980 and never had an issue kick starting one

Many people refer to factory e-start on Commandos and Tridents as "start assist", Whereby you kick to get the crank turning, then push the button (supposedly easier on the starter motor that way).

I always just push the button, too. When the battery does drop too far, I can always start mine with a good romp on the kicker, but to tell the truth haven't done so in several years and don't know if my worn out back can handle that any more (I certainly can't kick-start a Combat any more).

I wouldn't worry about not being able to kickstart if the E-start fails. You can always bump-start it. Heck if you are facing downhill, bumpstarting is easier/quicker than kickstarting anyway. I removed the kickstart lever from my Commando (Alton E-start) a while back and have never missed it. On flat ground, 3rd gear/clutch in, a bit of of a jog, pop the clutch and there you go!

LOL, Thanks guys!

bsanorton said:

Any thoughts?

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As you said, Even a big guy won't be able to start your bike because he hasn't developed the technique. It isn't all power. A lot of it is knowing what to do and,.... wait for it,.... Practicing your starting technique.

(which is what you should do. Start messing around with different starting procedures and find one that works)

I will try. Very frustrating as I've owned many Nortons from many years EXCEPT an e-start. I feel when kicking I'm not spinning the engine as fast as the starter motor can. 1st thing I did was drain the sump, but empty sump didn't help.

Someone from another thread suggested something that I've never tried. He pushes down and gets the kick starter to where he can tell from the strong resistance that it's going toward compression, then he puts the bike into gear (2nd is better than 1st, and maybe 3rd would be better) and rolls the bike backwards slightly so it rotates the crank until he gets some resistance. Now the pistons are positioned on an intake stroke on one cylinder, and the backside of the power stroke of the other. This gives you less resistance on the kick lever to give the crankshaft more inertial energy with your kick before it confronts the resistance of compression...

I'm a large person. I don't do this myself, but I've heard it explained and it makes sense to me that it helps to get the bike over TDC. Maybe give that technique a try.

i hope your luck with a trispark is better than mine. after the first failure i carried a spare stator and after the third failure the last spare was sold as soon as i arrived home.

bsanorton said:

I'm ready to rip out the Boyer and go with a TriSpark,

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To be fair, I had the opposite experience with the Trispark which replaced a miserably-running Boyer and has been completely trouble free since 2008.

MexicoMike said:

To be fair, I had the opposite experience with the Trispark which replaced a miserably-running Boyer and has been completely trouble free since 2008.

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I do wonder if your trispark will be working fine after40 years like my power hungry Lucas Rita ? I hope it is btw
There are many posts on here about electronic ignition failures (not just trispark failures)

Sometimes with my Mikuni if it doesn't start first or second time I'll put the choke off, wind the idle in a turn or so and it will generally fire up. You obviously realise not to touch the throttle with the choke on. As an aside, my commando only needs the choke for a short while after it's started whereas my Atlas needs it much longer. With both I increase the idle speed until it warms up.

"I do wonder if your trispark will be working fine after40 years like my power hungry Lucas Rita ? I hope it is btw
There are many posts on here about electronic ignition failures (not just trispark failures)"

Baz, you will never get me to rave that E-ignitions are fabulous on these bikes - no matter WHO makes the e-ignition. If you want an ignition that delivers the best performance on a street bike with very little worry that it will fail, use and properly maintain the original system!

I originally dumped the Boyer, went back to OEM after I bought the bike and had no intention of ever fooling with an e-ignition. But the charm of no maintenance attracted me when the TS came out with an advance curve that pretty much duplicated the OEM curve. So I decided to try it. I fully intended to remove it/go back to OEM if there were any issues at all but nothing occurred.

A few months ago I removed the TS and re-installed the OEM out of curiosity. I like the idea that the OEM points can time the ignition to each cylinder individually. BUT I discovered that the ballast resistor pulls too much current to keep the Shorai battery in good shape, reducing charging voltage available by almost a full volt. Not a problem with a standard batt but not good with the Shorai. I had installed the Shorai in '12 or thereabouts when I installed the Alton E-start.

Life's full of compromises!

MexicoMike said:

To be fair, I had the opposite experience with the Trispark which replaced a miserably-running Boyer and has been completely trouble free since 2008.

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Same here. The Boyer had worked well for 30 years up to the point where it didn't. I love the idle stabilization on the TS. (And I'm carrying Bill's old one as a spare - ya never know).