'74 Commando - New Owner Thread
- Thread starter hobageeba
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hobageeba said:Currently flummoxed by the wiring.I'm staring at a pre-made loom (bought from Steadfast Cycles by PO) with what seems to be lots of excess wiring and a wiring diagram that seems to hardly match what's sitting in front of me. I believe there's a good deal of aftermarket parts/wiring so a lot of the colors don't match either.
Gonna search this site and pour over all the info, taking it one circuit at a time. If I get really stuck, maybe I'll start a new thread.
I think I can, I think I can, I think I can...
OC? I don't think you're far from Jerry and a couple other Nortoneers.
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I believe cNwRestomod could be my Norton soulmate. I too have a 1974 Norton 850 Commando. It was a dream come true when I purchased it in May of 2015. I have been riding for forty five years and learned a lot of life-saving riding tips from reading Proficient Motorcycling (comes in two volumes) by David Hough. Any Orange
County, California riders who are interested in a Julian run, please contact me!
County, California riders who are interested in a Julian run, please contact me!
I've found that the Old Brits web site to be about the most user friendly place for ordering parts.
https://www.oldbritts.com/nor_comm_73.html
https://www.oldbritts.com/nor_comm_73.html
Thanks everyone for all the continued tips and encouragement!
So I decided to start with the tail light as that seemed fairly harmless but I already hit a snag. The PO had installed a LED tail/brake/indicator combo (which I was actually pretty excited about as I don't like the look of indicators), but as you all probably already guessed, it doesn't work with the positive earth polarity. I know these bikes are sometimes rewired for negative earth—is it possible that this bike was? If so, is there a way to tell? I'm not even sure which components would have to be setup as neg earth. Electronic ignition and Reg/Rec perhaps? Looks like this bike has a Micro-MKIV Boyer Ignition and a Boyer Power Box reg/rec...
*PORE over...frankdamp said:
Geez, if any one of these Nortoneers want to come over and take a look at the bike, I'd be delighted!swooshdave said:
So I decided to start with the tail light as that seemed fairly harmless but I already hit a snag. The PO had installed a LED tail/brake/indicator combo (which I was actually pretty excited about as I don't like the look of indicators), but as you all probably already guessed, it doesn't work with the positive earth polarity. I know these bikes are sometimes rewired for negative earth—is it possible that this bike was? If so, is there a way to tell? I'm not even sure which components would have to be setup as neg earth. Electronic ignition and Reg/Rec perhaps? Looks like this bike has a Micro-MKIV Boyer Ignition and a Boyer Power Box reg/rec...
I had a moment to squeeze in some research, and so far, it seems both the Boyer ignition (Micro-MKIV) and Boyer Power Box aren't polarity sensitive...? I dug through their site and there doesn't seem to be an option to choose positive or negative earth for the Micro-MKIV, and the only Power Box models with polarity options are for dynamo systems. The label on my Power Box is about 95% faded (could just barely read "Box" and had to do some google-ing to even find out what it was) so I can't confirm it's model number. Is it safe to assume these guys are not polarity sensitive? Maybe I'm way off the mark here...
Also, if they are, is there a way to test their polarity?
Also, if they are, is there a way to test their polarity?
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hobageeba said:
Yes, they are both polarity sensitive, however, it is simply a matter of connecting them according to the bike's polarity.
Edit:
For a Neg. earth/ground electrical system, connect the Boyer as shown for "NEGATIVE GROUND" on the Triumph twins instruction sheet (Boyer box Neg. - white = ground).
(Triumph twins instruction sheet)
http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/KIT00052.pdf
Power Box instructions:
http://www.boyerbransden.com/pdf/PBOX00108.pdf
Okie doke so another slight snag:
(*sidenote: Should I be posting this stuff in different threads? Sorry, I'm not very attuned to message board etiquette)
I'm trying to make sense of the indicator circuits but I think my handlebar switch may be shot. I'm terrible at deciphering wiring schematics, but from what I can tell, the indicators get their juice from the brown/light green wire and get connected to the white/green (RH indicator) or the green/red (LH indicator) via the switch. If that's correct, then my thought is if I run a continuity tester across the brown/light green and green/red or green/white (with the switch flipped to the corresponding indicator) then there should be continuity. Is that correct? Am I way off-base?
I'm not getting any readings this way. For the record, I tried running the continuity tester across all the wires coming out of the right handlebar controls in all sorts of combos and didn't get a reading (except for across white and white/yellow which I'm deducing is the power going to the coils that gets interrupted by the kill switch).
I really don't want to open up the handle bar controls as the screws are super rusty and a couple have slots that are totally stripped and rounded out. I'll have to fix that eventually, but I'd rather not cross that bridge if I don't have to right now. Just wanna get this thing wired proper and take it for a good shakedown run!
(*sidenote: Should I be posting this stuff in different threads? Sorry, I'm not very attuned to message board etiquette)
I'm trying to make sense of the indicator circuits but I think my handlebar switch may be shot. I'm terrible at deciphering wiring schematics, but from what I can tell, the indicators get their juice from the brown/light green wire and get connected to the white/green (RH indicator) or the green/red (LH indicator) via the switch. If that's correct, then my thought is if I run a continuity tester across the brown/light green and green/red or green/white (with the switch flipped to the corresponding indicator) then there should be continuity. Is that correct? Am I way off-base?
I'm not getting any readings this way. For the record, I tried running the continuity tester across all the wires coming out of the right handlebar controls in all sorts of combos and didn't get a reading (except for across white and white/yellow which I'm deducing is the power going to the coils that gets interrupted by the kill switch).
I really don't want to open up the handle bar controls as the screws are super rusty and a couple have slots that are totally stripped and rounded out. I'll have to fix that eventually, but I'd rather not cross that bridge if I don't have to right now. Just wanna get this thing wired proper and take it for a good shakedown run!
That's a bummer...guess I'll have to crack the controls open and see what's up.Hey guys, just an update: I got the bike rewired and all seems good! I'm just waiting for a flasher relay and new key ignition but have temporary ones in place. Still need to dial in the carbs and chase down some other demons.
One thing is that it's EXTREMELY hard to kick. I've read through this thread: http://www.accessnorton.com/how-hard-kick-start-750-roadster-t12899-30.html and it seems like most people are saying it's basically technique and you have to man up and give it a good go. Totally understandable. BUT...I have a 650 Triumph pre unit and it's note even close to as hard to kick as this bike. When it kicks over normal, it feels like maybe another 300 cc's, but sometimes it feels like another 800c's; not another 200. I'm not big, I only weigh about 160 lbs, but I'm not a total stranger to kick starting bikes (have only owned vintage bikes and even ones with electric start, only kickstart them), and this bike will completely stop me dead in my tracks sometimes. Almost feels like the bike's gonna tip I'm kicking so hard and it's stopping me so hard. If it ever totally locks up on me, I'll pull the clutch in, kick it through, and try again and it seems better...whatever that might be doing, at least for a couple more kicks.
Does this sound like it could possibly some other problem? Or do you guys still think it's technique/pussy-footing around :?
Edit: also, for what it's worth, this bike has a single carb mod with what I think is an Amal MKII Concentric.
One thing is that it's EXTREMELY hard to kick. I've read through this thread: http://www.accessnorton.com/how-hard-kick-start-750-roadster-t12899-30.html and it seems like most people are saying it's basically technique and you have to man up and give it a good go. Totally understandable. BUT...I have a 650 Triumph pre unit and it's note even close to as hard to kick as this bike. When it kicks over normal, it feels like maybe another 300 cc's, but sometimes it feels like another 800c's; not another 200. I'm not big, I only weigh about 160 lbs, but I'm not a total stranger to kick starting bikes (have only owned vintage bikes and even ones with electric start, only kickstart them), and this bike will completely stop me dead in my tracks sometimes. Almost feels like the bike's gonna tip I'm kicking so hard and it's stopping me so hard. If it ever totally locks up on me, I'll pull the clutch in, kick it through, and try again and it seems better...whatever that might be doing, at least for a couple more kicks.
Does this sound like it could possibly some other problem? Or do you guys still think it's technique/pussy-footing around :?
Edit: also, for what it's worth, this bike has a single carb mod with what I think is an Amal MKII Concentric.
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You need to eat more spinach!
Haha! Shoot...cNwRestomod said:
Whelp, I think I figured out a potential problem. This bike is running a Boyer MKIV ignition, which I'm reading is sensitive to undercharged batteries. I have a small Shorai 12V 7ah battery in there which I was hoping was enough for this bike. I charged it fully and was able to start the bike, but am currently trying to tune the idle on the carb so I had to re-kick it several times. Towards the end—maybe 15 kicks or so in—it wasn't being very cooperative again so I checked charge. The battery at full charge started at around 14v, but at this point had already dropped to 13.3 or 13.2 or so. I'm guessing the 7ah battery is draining too fast and the bike needs a stronger spark than what it can give it after the first few kicks?
This doesn't necessarily address the hard to kick/need to eat more spinach part, but I did try kicking with the pedal not all the way at the top (maybe around 10:00 or so) as a user suggested in the thread I linked previously, and that seemed to help. It also seems really sensitive to "clicking" into a certain position and not letting up pressure on the kick pedal at all, then kicking. If I take my foot off and then try to kick, it does that whole stopping-me-dead-in-my-tracks (or I-need-to-eat-more-spinach) thing. I pull the clutch, kick down with the clutch still in, let go of the clutch, keep my foot on the kick pedal, bring it up to position (10:00-ish) without taking my foot off, then kick. Seems to sorta work.
I'm just wondering about having to pull the clutch in and kick to more or less "release" the kick pedal pressure part. Doesn't seem right...
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hobageeba said:
Boyer MkIII units can be, however, the MkIV should not be as sensitive to low voltage.
http://www.boyerbransden.com/micromarkiv.html
hobageeba said:
It should be more than enough.
hobageeba said:
13.2-3V off-charge would seem reasonably good for a 12V battery. If you'd said the voltage had dropped below 12V during that time then it would be cause for concern, so I don't think the battery is likely to be the problem.
lazyeye6
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Your experience sounds perfectly normal to me. I changed out my kick start lever for the one used on the '75 Mark 3 which has slightly better leverage. Yes, it does take a mighty kick with much applied athleticism to start this beast, especially if lacking the height/weight leverage of a bigger man. Everyone finds their own successful technique. Note that the Boyer will not fire unless the rotational speed of the crank is at least about 200 rpm. After a few mighty kicks I get tired and have difficulty maintaining that requisite rpm. So, besides being a lightweight, I'm pushing 70 and losing athleticism. There are days when I simply can't start my bike. I'm gonna buy and install the CnW elec. start kit when it is finally available :mrgreen: I have no trouble kick starting my Mercury or Triumph.
Update!
I've been plugging away at this bike, putting in time when I can. I ended up swapping the Amal MKII for a pre-jetted Mikuni VM34 from Rocky Point Cycles, new throttle cable, new (correct) plugs, gapped (the PO had BP6ES in there, gapped incorrectly), new 5k ohm suppressed plug caps for use with my Boyer Ignition (MKIV so not required, but recommended), adjusted tappets (they were way out!). Fired right up with a touch of dialing in the air screw/throttle screw. Starts in 1 or 2 kicks now. Really pleased with this new carb setup.
BTW, I spoke to a local Norton expert about my kickstart problem and he said it's something to do with the teeth of the gears (maybe on the kickstarter?) not lining up correctly—basically that the teeth aren't interlocking, rather, more or less butting up when it locks up. Which is why I pull my clutch, "free" whatever is happening up, and kick again and it kicks through like it should. Forcing the issue and trying to kick through is only exacerbating the problem, so I was told. I'm afraid I did so a good few times when I thought I needed to "eat more spinach"
Aaaanyway, I got a proper little shakedown run in tonight for the first time and here are my initial thoughts after riding a Commando proper for the first time:
• It's FUN. Man, that feeling of a British twin plugging away beneath you is like nothing else. And the way it smooths out as you climb RPM's is a REALLY cool feeling.
• The foot controls being swapped AND the flopped shifting lead to lots of thinking and fumbling. Can't wait till it's second nature.
• I suck at the indicator light switch. I was having a real hard time keeping a steady throttle and trying to flip that darn switch up or down. Just a matter of getting used to it, I'm sure.
• It's jumpy off the line and can be stutter-y if I'm not really careful with my throttle. Maybe a carb thing, but I'm thinking it's more me sucking at it. This is the biggest bike I've ridden so maybe I'm not used to the power, especially down low. I probably just need to finesse it more
• I could use a lot more response/feel out of the front brake. Not sweating it, I'll learn to use it.
• Felt a bit sway-ey at higher speeds - maybe my isolastics need to be checked.
• My speedo doesn't work :roll:
• I have a broken spoke on my back wheel (how terrible is this? Can I ride a bit or is this a get-fixed-immediately-and-don't-ride-it-till-you-do sorta thing?)
• All in all, I'm definitely not comfortable on the bike yet but I'm gonna take it easy, keep a clear head, and I'm sure everything will be second nature soon enough.
• Stoked!
I've been plugging away at this bike, putting in time when I can. I ended up swapping the Amal MKII for a pre-jetted Mikuni VM34 from Rocky Point Cycles, new throttle cable, new (correct) plugs, gapped (the PO had BP6ES in there, gapped incorrectly), new 5k ohm suppressed plug caps for use with my Boyer Ignition (MKIV so not required, but recommended), adjusted tappets (they were way out!). Fired right up with a touch of dialing in the air screw/throttle screw. Starts in 1 or 2 kicks now. Really pleased with this new carb setup.
BTW, I spoke to a local Norton expert about my kickstart problem and he said it's something to do with the teeth of the gears (maybe on the kickstarter?) not lining up correctly—basically that the teeth aren't interlocking, rather, more or less butting up when it locks up. Which is why I pull my clutch, "free" whatever is happening up, and kick again and it kicks through like it should. Forcing the issue and trying to kick through is only exacerbating the problem, so I was told. I'm afraid I did so a good few times when I thought I needed to "eat more spinach"
Aaaanyway, I got a proper little shakedown run in tonight for the first time and here are my initial thoughts after riding a Commando proper for the first time:
• It's FUN. Man, that feeling of a British twin plugging away beneath you is like nothing else. And the way it smooths out as you climb RPM's is a REALLY cool feeling.
• The foot controls being swapped AND the flopped shifting lead to lots of thinking and fumbling. Can't wait till it's second nature.
• I suck at the indicator light switch. I was having a real hard time keeping a steady throttle and trying to flip that darn switch up or down. Just a matter of getting used to it, I'm sure.
• It's jumpy off the line and can be stutter-y if I'm not really careful with my throttle. Maybe a carb thing, but I'm thinking it's more me sucking at it. This is the biggest bike I've ridden so maybe I'm not used to the power, especially down low. I probably just need to finesse it more
• I could use a lot more response/feel out of the front brake. Not sweating it, I'll learn to use it.
• Felt a bit sway-ey at higher speeds - maybe my isolastics need to be checked.
• My speedo doesn't work :roll:
• I have a broken spoke on my back wheel (how terrible is this? Can I ride a bit or is this a get-fixed-immediately-and-don't-ride-it-till-you-do sorta thing?)
• All in all, I'm definitely not comfortable on the bike yet but I'm gonna take it easy, keep a clear head, and I'm sure everything will be second nature soon enough.
• Stoked!
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