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1963 650SS Australia

Discussion in 'Norton Motorcycle Rebuilds' started by Burgs, Jul 22, 2018.

  1. possm

    possm

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Thanks Burgs, my 650SS is now going really well, though it took a while to get it sorted, the rebuilt mag turned out to not to be firing at 180 degrees and then it took a while to get the carbs right. all lessons learnt for this time around with the Atlas.
     
  2. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi
    Tacho is now mounted on new rubbers and nuts from Norvil looks good.
    upload_2018-11-30_22-12-48.png
    Did a dummy run on fitting the oil tank and battery box, ran into trouble with the battery box, should have known but the battery box is a police one that either takes a bigger battery or two batteries and doesn't fit correctly.
    The cover is not fitting correctly as well as a bit of clearance problem with the air filter.
    Might see if I can get a standard one.
    Does anyone know what are the two 1/4" threaded holes in the back of the oil tank?

    upload_2018-11-30_22-15-58.png

    Burgs
     
  3. kernel65

    kernel65

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2012
    For mounting a Vokes air filter box.
     
  4. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Yeah thanks for that one more issue solved.
    Burgs
     
  5. possm

    possm

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    Both my 650SS and Atlas appear to be ex NZ Police bikes as both have the battery box cover extended I.e. an extra strip added to the cover but the battery box its self is still standard.
    Al
     
  6. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi Possm
    This one is extended to, problem is it has a bit of a bow outwards where the extension has been added and it is hard up against the air filter, tried pushing it into shape but no go.
    Also the lid/cover no matter how hard I tried won't fit.
    upload_2018-12-1_20-36-45.png
    upload_2018-12-1_20-38-24.png
    Is this like your battery boxes?
    Ordered a set of early Commando Handle bars from Andover that appear to have a small lift so hopefully the hand bar problem will be fixed.
    Still having problems with the front mudguard struts, either too short or now too long, so decided that I will have to make a die and make my own struts at 11.875" centre to centre, got the die design finished and programs written so only a matter of freeing up so time to machine.
    Regards
    Burgs
     
  7. possm

    possm

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    No My Battery boxes do not extend inwards but the Atlas is 1966 and the SS is 1967, my guard stays measure 11-1/8 but again are to suit the valance type front guard.
    Al
     
  8. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi All, the best for the new Year.

    Got a few more things sorted on the build.
    Battery box got a hit with a plastic lump hammer, and now fits, paint still ok.
    Still to sort out a suitable battery and what to do with the extra space, could mount the regulator behind the battery but not sure how it would handle the heat due to the extension of the battery box.
    Battery box cover also now fits after a bit of bending and shoving around on advice from another Norton owner.
    Air filter now fits after attacking the extended battery box.
    Because I like to feel a bit safer I am fitting blinkers, so far just the front completed, stripped the new blinkers down and machined two new stalks out of 1/2" 304 SS and threaded to suit the original head light threads, shortened the stalks a bit while I was at it.
    Stuffed up big time when ordering the rims and spokes, ordered earlier 8" Brake ones instead of later full width hub set, might have to find an older Dominator to use them up?
    You can see the angle of the spokes in the photo YUK.
    Can't finish the primary side off until I get the bike on wheels to be able to sort the side stand out.

    upload_2019-1-5_19-12-54.png

    Didn't like the way the throttle and air slide cables were flopping around so I finally got my 3D Printer working (after nearly 2 years from purchase) and designed two brackets for the splitter boxes, and printed one of each, they mount off the horn mounting holes, the air control side shown has a dog leg in it so the horn stays in the original position.
    I will alter the angle by another 5 degrees forward to get a better entry and exit for the cables and print in Nylon instead of PLA for the finals. They turned out far stronger than I thought they would, and they are out of sight of the nit pickers, unless they get under the fuel tank for a look!


    upload_2019-1-5_19-33-35.png

    Head light is sorted out, speedo is in but needs a new U shaped bracket to clamp it in place, bought an amp gauge but threw it in the Swap Meet bin as it was a no good, might try one of the new Lucas ones.
    Emgo rear shocks are fitted.
    Wiring schematic (12V neg earth) is being drawn up.
    Still to machine parts for magneto to convert to Pazon ignition, all design work completed, just need to get some free time with the machine tools.

    Best regards
    Burgs
     
  9. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    Re; "Did a dummy run on fitting the oil tank and battery box, ran into trouble with the battery box, should have known but the battery box is a police one that either takes a bigger battery or two batteries and doesn't fit correctly."
    I very much doubt you have a non standard Battery box. you have to remember that up till about the end of 1965 there were 2 x 6 volt batteries used when they went from 6 v to 12 v.
     
  10. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi Bernhard
    Information I have (Norton Twins Roy Bacon) lists 1963 6 volt one battery and 1964 12 Volt and two batteries?
    Could the 1963 police bikes delivered to Qld Australia have had 12 Volts and two batteries I wonder?
     
  11. possm

    possm

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2009
    NZ Police bikes also had 2 12v battery's, I am running a Motobat but can not remember the number I will try and remove the cover next weekend and check its number.
     
  12. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi Possm
    I would have thought they would have been two x 6V Batteries arranged in series to give 12 Volt?
    Though with warning light radios etc who knows what they came up with, but my bike being early 1963 I would have thought two 6V battery's but either way not standard in 1963 by Roy Bacon?
    Maybe Bernhard has more detailed information??

    Burgs
     
  13. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    When Lucas invented the Zener Diode in 1963 enabling for the first time 12 volts to be used it was common practice at first to use two six volt batteries, as I had in my 1965 (ex Police) Atlas because as a rule, small 12 v batteries were not available. But I decided to upgrade to 12 volt battery and, as far as I was aware at the time 2 x 6 v batteries was still being used by Norton, so, as I was not happy with the great amount of vibration that my batteries were suffering, I decided to make my own battery carrier by using if I remember correctly 2inch x 3/16 flat metal, all I had to buy was a rubber battery strap which was I think from a 1970s Honda CB500/4. But I would not do that now, because I no longer have access to a company’s tool room, and there are plenty of Jap bikes broken, I think, but please check up the size of it first, a 500/4 battery will fit in the b/box. I used pair of long countersunk screws of about ¼ BSW with the front of the holes heavily countersunk to accommodate these so it was flush to the battery, I also used big round blocks of round rubber bung(s) these had holes right through, on both sides of the rear of b/box in an attempt to dampen the vibration. I would suggest using a strip of 2inch x 3/16 flat metal that has counter sunk screw where it bolts to the box as described above for strength
     
  14. grandpaul

    grandpaul VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    That's looking quite smart; keep it up!
     
  15. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    if electrics were 6 volt, then one 6v battery, when they upgraded alternator (the same 6v alternator with 2 wires crossed over and fitted with Zener Diode & heat sink), then 2x 6v batteries at first until small 12 v batteries became available - hope this clears this up. I suggest you may have an earlier battery box from a 6v ES2 for instance- but don't quote me on this !!!
     
  16. Bernhard

    Bernhard

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2011
    I'm not trying to argue the point, but even in 1965 when Lucas had found how to convert their 6 v alternator to 12v , they had to use 2x 6v batteries wired to 12v - my 1965 Atlas was like this when brought. Then later when small 12v batteries became available, from Lucas-who else?
     
  17. L.A.B.

    L.A.B. Moderator VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    The first 12V motorcycle battery Lucas made was the PUZ5A introduced during 1966.

    Prior to that, the relatively few motorcycles that had 12V electrics generally used two 6V MKZ9E batteries (MKZ9E/2) connected in series.

    https://www.baxtercycle.com/product/lucas_battery_nos/
     
  18. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi Lab and Bernhard
    Yep agree on the batteries no argument there but did Roy Bacon get it wrong on the year when Norton 650ss went to 12Volts ie 1964?
    I just cannot get my head around all the electrics, (extra lights, radio etc), on the 1963 delivered Qld police bikes with 6 volts. Either that or the Qld police bikes were 12 volts with 2 x 6V batteries in series. From the information I have it looks as though they were ordered in 1962, the catalogue that came from the police museum is dated 1962, someone had marked the bikes they were looking at, 650 standard for sidecar use and the 650SS for solo use.

    Hi GP thanks for comment, slow but getting there,
    Mounted the mudguard and sorted the blinkers out. Made the stalks out of 1/2" 304 SS threaded 7/16" to take the blinkers original nut and washer and stepped down to 5/16" BSF into the mudguard, used the smallest size hole that I could get the wire through to retain some strength.
    upload_2019-1-12_9-11-43.png
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019
  19. L.A.B.

    L.A.B. Moderator VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2004
    The Lucas lists also agree with 1964 being the first 12V production year (as it also appears to be first year for the Zener diode) however, it's not impossible that some late '63 police models could have been 12V.
     
  20. Burgs

    Burgs VIP MEMBER

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2013
    Hi LAB
    My bike was shipped from the Factory on 26th February 1963 to the agent Tozer Kemsley & Millbourne (Shipping Agents) of Brisbane, so early 1963, there were 80 (or 83) delivered in 1963.
    New Norton Motorcycles for Police May 1963 - Copy.jpg
    My bike was released to the Brisbane police 14/05/1963, in the early photos they don't have the big lights seen in this photo, not of my bike.
    1960-pm0436.jpg

    burgs
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2019