Question - Norman White Manual

[robs ss]

Maybe someone here can help...
Will remove the rear wheel soon and intend to install the rear brake plate shims that @Dan1950 kindly sent me a couple of years ago. Wanted to know the procedure for ensuring the correct number so looked at the workshop manual - nothing there.
Reading the Norman White book, Chapter 13, Section "Rear Brake Assembly", P179 says...
"Centralising the rear brake is rather more complicated than the front wheel, and the process is covered step by step in Chapter 13"
Already being in Chapter 13, I looked around but could find nothing more.
Could anyone assist with:
1. The procedure for ensuring the correct number of shims is installed -see AN pictures below, and
2. Where this "rather more complicated procedure" can be found?
Cheers

 

[Fast Eddie]

What problem / issue are you trying to solve / improve?

AFAIK there is no standard quantity, hence AN state ‘as required’ meaning just that, you use as many / few as required.

So long as nothing on your brake plate assembly is making contact with any area within the hub, I don’t see why yiu need any?

 

[robs ss]

What problem / issue are you trying to solve / improve?

AFAIK there is no standard quantity, hence AN state ‘as required’ meaning just that, you use as many / few as required.

So long as nothing on your brake plate assembly is making contact with any area within the hub, I don’t see why yiu need any?

Other than listening for "noises" (amongst all the other ones) or looking for scrape marks - exactly how do you determine that?
I was expecting (too much, I know!) some reasonably elegant procedure to avoid trial & error.
Pulling apart and reassembling the rear brake numerous times is not something I would consider fun. Then again, I'm sure I'm a bit strange.

...and before some other card chimes in on your last comment - The brake is meant to make contact with the drum - that's the whole point - just radially, not axially - which I think I was experiencing.

 

[johnm]

Listening for noises / scrapes is how I have always done it.

You don't need to assemble and fit the whole wheel. Just put the axle through and rotate the brake plate in the drum holding it firmly central. You can add some engineers blue if you need to see how much is touching. Then add shims until it stop touching. You don't need to be accurate to the last thou. From memory I gave it a good 2 mm or so of clearance.

 

[robs ss]

Thanks guys! Other than that I've sent emails to both the publisher and to Norman White asking if they can assist with the apparently missing step-by-step.
I'll be interested in what this "rather more complicated" method is. I have always just stood firmly on the brake pedal whilst tightening the axle.
I will post whatever feedback I get.
Cheers

 

[Fast Eddie]

Listening for noises / scrapes is how I have always done it.

You don't need to assemble and fit the whole wheel. Just put the axle through and rotate the brake plate in the drum holding it firmly central. You can add some engineers blue if you need to see how much is touching. Then add shims until it stop touching. You don't need to be accurate to the last thou. From memory I gave it a good 2 mm or so of clearance.

When I did mine I used an angle grinder instead of shims !!

 

[johnm]

When I did mine I used an angle grinder instead of shims !!

That could work too.

 

[robs ss]

When I did mine I used an angle grinder instead of shims !!

I'm afraid to ask how you do your pressure relief valve!

 

[YING]

Rob,
I got in touch with Don Pender about this and he chucks up the backing plate in his lathe to see if it is bent then uses a hammer to correct it and has rarely used a shim.
Mike

 

[Britstuff]

When assembling and installing my 1974 Mk II Commando rear wheel, I found the following diagram extremely helpful. I believe the shim you are referring to is entitled "very thin washer" in the diagram. It's been a couple of years since I have played with my rear wheel, but if memory serves, I trial fitted 0, 1 and 2 shims and ended up using 1.

 

[seanalex]

damn, thats a helpful drawing.

 

[acotrel]

When end play is shimmed-up, often when the whole assembly is tightened, the clearances change. I do not like drum brakes in any shape or form. They change as they heat-up, and can never be relied upon to not either grab or fade. The first time I ever raced, I held the front bake on at the end of a long straight, and could not stop the bike - the brake suddenly gabbed and chucked me over the front of the bike at about 150 KPH. My two young sons were standing where it happened, and thought I was dead. So I never had to watch them race motorcycles.

 

[ashman]

Al, Rob is talking about the rear brake, not the front brake, as we all know the front brakes does all the hard work and Robs Commando has great upgraded front brakes.

 

[marshg246]

What problem / issue are you trying to solve / improve?

AFAIK there is no standard quantity, hence AN state ‘as required’ meaning just that, you use as many / few as required.

So long as nothing on your brake plate assembly is making contact with any area within the hub, I don’t see why yiu need any?

Right. I almost always need one, have seldom needed none, and have never used two or more. If two or more are required, then IMHO the brake backing plate must be straightened or replaced.

 

[robs ss]

Regarding the "rather more complicated procedure" in post #1, I have received the prompt and kind response from Norman White who has agreed to my posting his response:
Hello Rob,

Sharron from Crowood Press has forwarded to me your question on Norton Commando rear brake centralising which I raised in my book. Yes my direction is a tad misleading and I should have directed you to chapter 15 page 216 centre paragraph. The process IS similar to the front drum brake however as you will note on page 216, while centralising the rear brake as you would the front brake, attention must also be paid to the chain tension and wheel alignment. There is a guide to aligning the wheels on page 218 . It is a little tricky juggling the chain tension and wheel alignment while centralising the brake plate and my suggestion is to set the chain tension and wheel alignment first, then centralise the brake plate. Any doubts, give me a call.

Thank you for buying my book,

Best wishes,

Norman.

So.. that answers that question - and I would suggest you mark p179 of your books appropriately. I have!
Cheers

 

[Fast Eddie]

Regarding the "rather more complicated procedure" in post #1, I have received the prompt and kind response from Norman White who has agreed to my posting his response:
Hello Rob,

Sharron from Crowood Press has forwarded to me your question on Norton Commando rear brake centralising which I raised in my book. Yes my direction is a tad misleading and I should have directed you to chapter 15 page 216 centre paragraph. The process IS similar to the front drum brake however as you will note on page 216, while centralising the rear brake as you would the front brake, attention must also be paid to the chain tension and wheel alignment. There is a guide to aligning the wheels on page 218 . It is a little tricky juggling the chain tension and wheel alignment while centralising the brake plate and my suggestion is to set the chain tension and wheel alignment first, then centralise the brake plate. Any doubts, give me a call.

Thank you for buying my book,

Best wishes,

Norman.

So.. that answers that question - and I would suggest you mark p179 of your books appropriately. I have!
Cheers

Norm is The Man !

 

[georges126]

Norm is The Man !

As an addendum to this thread , does the felt washer(06.7614) fit inside the dished part of the dished washer(06.3012) or on the flat section?

 

[Britstuff]

As an addendum to this thread , does the felt washer(06.7614) fit inside the dished part of the dished washer(06.3012) or on the flat section?

Have a look at the diagram I posted earlier. It shows the correct orientation and location of all components. Once you get the orientation correct everything everything seems to fall into place quite nicely. That said I have only done this once, so maybe I just got lucky!

 

[Saber]

Norm is The Man !

Class guy that Norm.

 

[Bonzo]

Norm is The Man !

Still the best book out there in my opinion. Shame he has retired.