2030 fossil fuel ban costs in the UK

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baz said:
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Agenda 20/30
Unsustainable greeny looney logic at work with no peer reviewed viability studies to back up their crap....
If Tawain falls not only will electric vehicles be affected ...gasoline powered vehicles will be too...plus we will all struggle to be able to get a new fridge or any other smart electric appliance ...(another supply chain issue coming)...Unless of course you get it from Chyna ....Our current government is also subsidizing ev sales with our tax money at a time when they need to pull the purse strings tight...and once people realize they are not just incompetent and wake up to the fact they want to crush the working man to become more dependent on...you guessed it....the bloody government 🙃
 
baz said:

You only need to look at how batteries are produced to see the true costs
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Another inconvenient Truth for the globalists.....poor buggers..
Now connecting some dots
Biden hands Afghanistan over to the Taliban ...The CCP are currently doing a deal with the Taliban ....why ??
Afghanistan sits on top of huge deposits of copper, iron, marble, talc, coal, lithium, chromite, cobalt, gold, lapis lazuli, gemstones, and more—making Afghanistan one of the world's most resource-rich countries on paper
Chyna wants world energy dominance of the electric nightmare
And also very close to home .....
 

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gortnipper said:
The opposite of a globalist is a nationalist.
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Is that relevant here?

The first video is simply looking at this global problem at a national level, primarily because we don’t (yet) have Orwellian global governments !

But all we gotta do is extrapolate the numbers (and add lots to factor in the lower income economies who have a much bigger task implementing the necessary EV infrastructure) to see the global issue.

Its a genuine question that no one seems to be prepared to publicly discuss: where is the money going to come from ??

And before anyone says ‘yeah but we need to’ and ‘it’s really important’ that is a separate discussion. I’m asking: where from?

Personally I think the article makes a fundamentally valid point, it does not say EVs are wrong, just that the ICE ban is potentially wrong, or at least being forced too soon.

Which is exactly where I’m at. Continuing to use ICEs which are cleaner and greener than ever before, whilst simultaneously pushing alternative technologies as hard as possible, until we reach the point whereby ICE are simply out competed by BETTER alternatives, that seems a far more realistic way forward to me.

Improved ICE / electric hybrid is so obviously the right answer in my simple mind (just as Toyota has said from the beginning, they GAVE AWAY their patentable technology precisely so the whole world can work with it and develop it). A tank of fuel could be made to go thousands (not hundreds) of miles, we‘d only have to fill up once per quarter, and we’d have zero ‘range anxiety’.

But until politicians stop pushing the very incorrect ‘zero emissions’ claim of pure EVs, a common sense approach, or even a genuienly attainable goal, seems highly unlikely.
 
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Fast Eddie said:
Is that relevant here?

The first video is simply looking at this global problem at a national level, primarily because we don’t (yet) have Orwellian global governments !

But all we gotta do is extrapolate the numbers (and add lots to factor in the lower income economies who have a much bigger task implementing the necessary EV infrastructure) to see the global issue.

Its a genuine question that no one seems to be prepared to publicly discuss: where is the money going to come from ??

And before anyone says ‘yeah but we need to’ and ‘it’s really important’ that is a separate discussion. I’m asking: where from?

Personally I think the article makes a fundamentally valid point, it does not say EVs are wrong, just that the ICE ban is potentially wrong, or at least being forced too soon.

Which is exactly where I’m at. Continuing to use ICEs which are cleaner and greener than ever before, whilst simultaneously pushing alternative technologies as hard as possible, until we reach the point whereby ICE are simply out competed by BETTER alternatives, that seems a far more realistic way forward to me.

Improved ICE / electric hybrid is so obviously the right answer in my simple mind (just as Toyota has said from the beginning, they GAVE AWAY their patentable technology precisely so the whole world can work with it and develop it). A tank of fuel could be made to go thousand (not hundreds) of miles, we‘d only have to fill up once per quarter, and we’d have zero ‘range anxiety’.

But until politicians stop pushing the very incorrect ‘zero emissions’ claim of pure EVs, a common sense approach, or even a genuienly attainable goal, seems highly unlikely.
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One thing to think about also
Is we are looking at power cuts here this winter due to lack of gas to run our power stations
How are we going to cope if everyone had an ev ?
 
baz said:
One thing to think about also
Is we are looking at power cuts here this winter due to lack of gas to run our power stations
How are we going to cope if everyone had an ev ?
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Fortunately England has coal and nuclear power as a buffer but your consumption of gas is just under 50% of your total energy fuel......Good thing England has Norway as a supplier
Here in New Zealand Jacinda and the greens are decommissioning our ONE & ONLY oil refinery
The byproduct paves our roads ...now we are importing bitumen from overseas which is inferior to what we once had...guess its all about carbon footprints :)
 
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I'm an old guy and interact with other old guys. The majority of them are anti green energy, wind, solar, battery powered cars etc. I'v heard all the reasons why none of this new technology will never work. They don't seem to realize that the oil that new technology is meant to replace is not and never has been as cheap as some think. The U.S. and other western countries have spent trillions of dollars, and thousands of lives keeping shipping lanes open and propping up governments since WWII for that cheap oil, fighting wars, some maybe just, some maybe not, all terribly mismanaged. IMO. A lot of the money paid out for oil has financed terrorism against the west and is currently financing the invasion of a peaceful European nation. Since the 70's unreliable oil supply has disrupted world economies every few years and the president, prime minister or whatever leader of your country gets blamed for the bad economy. So I often wonder why would anyone want to continue down the same path of oil dependency without trying something different. And don't worry nothing is going to change tomorrow, it will take decades to cut oil dependency in half and won't be a problem or a benefit to most of us old guys anyway. Oh, I forgot to mention climate change.
 
rweb said:
I'm an old guy and interact with other old guys. The majority of them are anti green energy, wind, solar, battery powered cars etc. I'v heard all the reasons why none of this new technology will never work. They don't seem to realize that the oil that new technology is meant to replace is not and never has been as cheap as some think. The U.S. and other western countries have spent trillions of dollars, and thousands of lives keeping shipping lanes open and propping up governments since WWII for that cheap oil, fighting wars, some maybe just, some maybe not, all terribly mismanaged. IMO. A lot of the money paid out for oil has financed terrorism against the west and is currently financing the invasion of a peaceful European nation. Since the 70's unreliable oil supply has disrupted world economies every few years and the president, prime minister or whatever leader of your country gets blamed for the bad economy. So I often wonder why would anyone want to continue down the same path of oil dependency without trying something different. And don't worry nothing is going to change tomorrow, it will take decades to cut oil dependency in half and won't be a problem or a benefit to most of us old guys anyway. Oh, I forgot to mention climate change.
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Personally I have nothing against any alternative
The problem is the alternatives on offer at the moment do not work
We are dependent on oil whether we like it or not
It's pure folly (at least in this country) to stop making petrol or diesel vehicles in just over 7 years time
We can't charge the electric vehicles we have now
Hence the diesel generators charging electric buses etc
 
baz said:
Personally I have nothing against any alternative
The problem is the alternatives on offer at the moment do not work
We are dependent on oil whether we like it or not
It's pure folly (at least in this country) to stop making petrol or diesel vehicles in just over 7 years time
We can't charge the electric vehicles we have now
Hence the diesel generators charging electric buses etc
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As I said I think it will take decades not 7 years to make any sizable dent in oil usage. The goals made by politicians today will have to be revised after five or six years when it becomes obvious the infrastructure is not ready. I'm just saying that it's good that efforts are being made to reduce the leverage the unreliable oil producers of the world have. If technological advances stopped tomorrow the naysayers would be correct. I'm just optimistic enough to think that alternative energy tech will continue to improve.
 
rweb said:
As I said I think it will take decades not 7 years to make any sizable dent in oil usage. The goals made by politicians today will have to be revised after five or six years when it becomes obvious the infrastructure is not ready. I'm just saying that it's good that efforts are being made to reduce the leverage the unreliable oil producers of the world have. If technological advances stopped tomorrow the naysayers would be correct. I'm just optimistic enough to think that alternative energy tech will continue to improve.
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Hopefully it will improve
I just don't like legislation that is not based on facts
Germany have already revised their mandate for phasing out fossil burners I believe and that was before the Russian gas stranglehold
 
KiwiShane said:
Fortunately England has coal and nuclear power as a buffer but your consumption of gas is just under 50% of your total energy fuel......Good thing England has Norway as a supplier
Here in New Zealand Jacinda and the greens are decommissioning our ONE & ONLY oil refinery
The byproduct paves our roads ...now we are importing bitumen from overseas which is inferior to what we once had...guess its all about carbon footprints :)
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The name of this forum included " no politics" so I'll keep this short.

The NZ prime minister nor the greens did NOT shut down NZ only refinery.

It was shut down by the group of oil companies who actually own it because it is now cheaper to import refined fuel from the enormous refineries in SE Asia. Economics and the free market speaking.

If your going to abuse someone at least get your facts right.

I'm now out.
 
baz said:
Personally I
johnm said:
The name of this forum included " no politics" so I'll keep this short.

The NZ prime minister nor the greens did NOT shut down NZ only refinery.

It was shut down by the group of oil companies who actually own it because it is now cheaper to import refined fuel from the enormous refineries in SE Asia. Economics and the free market speaking.

If your going to abuse someone at least get your facts right.

I'm now out.
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Maybe I should have said (so not to sound abusive to you ?).....Jacinda and the greens (the Government) will not interven to protect this Government built strategic NZ asset from years of managed decline..that was originally built by the NZ Government in 1964 from Kiwi tax payer money..
www.change.org

Sign the Petition

Put New Zealand’s Fuel Security First - Not Oil Company Profits
www.change.org www.change.org
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johnm said:
The name of this forum included " no politics" so I'll keep this short.

The NZ prime minister nor the greens did NOT shut down NZ only refinery.

It was shut down by the group of oil companies who actually own it because it is now cheaper to import refined fuel from the enormous refineries in SE Asia. Economics and the free market speaking.

If your going to abuse someone at least get your facts right.

I'm now out.
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I’d call this a world event, or current affairs discussion. I really value and appreciate different views being expressed in a clear and articulate way.

I wouldn’t expect Jerry to intervene whilst this is the case, he does that when discussions are no longer clear or articulate and have been dragged down to kindergarten argument levels.

Lets ALL try and stay grown up.
 
Yeah well my brother can beat up your brother so there!
So much of politics is just tit for tat, your money in my pocket etc.
With all the current nonsense in the UK this morning I am just done with worrying about this stuff.
 
Son, if you have to ask......I feel sorry for you.
:)
JUST KIDDIN'
 
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