Norman White PR starting problems

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PM999S

PM999S

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I was the fortunate winner of an auction in summer to buy a Norman White prepared production racer, albeit right in the middle of a double home move so it is only recently I've started looking at getting it started. Being a PR it has a kickstart but, after many attempts, a couple of kickbacks nearly broke my ankle so I invested in a paddock roller starter which I'll need anyway when my longed for return to the track happens next year.
Sadly, even that doesn't illicit anything other than the odd cough. I'd been told it had been started earlier in the year and have swapped spark plugs with my Roadster and still no joy.
I suspect a fueling issue and Norman told me it is set to run an Avgas 50/50 mix but that 100 octane or above should be fine and so I'm using 102 octane from my local Arval garage. I suspect I'm going to have to strip the Amal Mk11s it has fitted. I've worked on Mk1s before so is there anything special I should be looking for with the Mk11s?
 
Have at it with the Easystart, but....

Have you checked the ignition timing? I don't mean strobe accuracy, just ballpark static setting.

If it has points, did you clean and set them? If it has a Boyer have you checked the pick up plate wiring?

If these are good you need to strip and clean the carbs thoroughly, particularly idle circuit.
 
PM999S said:
I was the fortunate winner of an auction in summer to buy a Norman White prepared production racer, albeit right in the middle of a double home move so it is only recently I've started looking at getting it started. Being a PR it has a kickstart but, after many attempts, a couple of kickbacks nearly broke my ankle so I invested in a paddock roller starter which I'll need anyway when my longed for return to the track happens next year.
Sadly, even that doesn't illicit anything other than the odd cough. I'd been told it had been started earlier in the year and have swapped spark plugs with my Roadster and still no joy.
I suspect a fueling issue and Norman told me it is set to run an Avgas 50/50 mix but that 100 octane or above should be fine and so I'm using 102 octane from my local Arval garage. I suspect I'm going to have to strip the Amal Mk11s it has fitted. I've worked on Mk1s before so is there anything special I should be looking for with the Mk11s?
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You’ll save a gazillion questions and probably get answers to the issue if you give more info…

What ign system does it have? What battery? Have you had the battery checked? Is the sump full of oil? Have you tried NEW plugs?
 
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When you pulled the plugs were they wet with fuel? If so, could be timing or a close to dead battery. I would still take the carburetors off strip and clean as suggested.

I've worked on all kinds of carburetors. The MkII looks like a Mikuni. If the fuel was left in the carburetors and dried out, the chokes could be messed up. I've run into the same problem with an old pair of 34mm Mikuni carburetors. Difficult to start after sitting for 23 years when the fuel leaves a dry chalky film inside everything in the carburetor and the choke rubber dries up and does not work right. I had to use a unique starting routine even after cleaning them up that is contradictory to typical startup advice. Ignition OFF, flip the chokes on, open the throttle all the way, kick it over 3 times with the throttle wide open, then kick it over with the throttle closed ignition ON. The hornets will probably tell you not to do it, but it worked for me.

Oh forgot to mention. I fixed it forever with new carburetors. I probably could have fixed it with new chokes, but wanted some pumper carburetors.
 
Fast Eddie said:
You’ll save a gazillion questions and probably get answers to the issue if you give more info…

What ign system does it have? What battery? Have you had the battery checked? Is the sump full of oil? Have you tried NEW plugs?
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It has hall effect Lucas electronic ignition and I've charged the battery and swapped out plugs for ones I know that work. Norman only built this early this year so I'd be surprised if it was anything other than a gunk build up in the carbs from old fuel. I will try Liqui Moly Start Fix which is the equivalent to EasyStart here in Germany and see what that does. I'm hoping working on the Mk11s will be little different to Mk1s...
 
PM999S said:
It has hall effect Lucas electronic ignition and I've charged the battery and swapped out plugs for ones I know that work. Norman only built this early this year so I'd be surprised if it was anything other than a gunk build up in the carbs from old fuel. I will try Liqui Moly Start Fix which is the equivalent to EasyStart here in Germany and see what that does. I'm hoping working on the Mk11s will be little different to Mk1s...
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And the sump?
 
Fast Eddie said:
And the sump?
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Well I confess the oil level in the tank was very low (beyond the dip stick) and I assumed it had wet sumped but I've drained down three full charged car batteries' worth of spinning the motor so surely that would have cleared the sump?
 
PM999S said:
I've drained down three full charged car batteries' worth of spinning the motor so surely that would have cleared the sump?
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No, needs a lot more than that plus if it had worked, as EB pointed out, why is the tank still empty.
 
If you pull the plugs and lay them on the head (connected of course), do they spark?
 
PM999S said:
Well I confess the oil level in the tank was very low (beyond the dip stick) and I assumed it had wet sumped but I've drained down three full charged car batteries' worth of spinning the motor so surely that would have cleared the sump?
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With a sump level reed valve breather probably, without, probably not!

I very much doubt Norman fitted one.
 
Thanks for all the advice and so I will drain the sump (as I can't see anything like the anti-sump valve I have on the Roadster) and the bike is fitted with primary belt drive and dry clutch so oil isn't returning in any measure to the tank. Then after that I'll try the Start Fix spray because I have good sparks from the plugs when out and resting against the head.
 
PM999S said:
Then after that I'll try the Start Fix spray because I have good sparks from the plugs when out and resting against the head.
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That's a good sign. An ounce of gasoline in each spark plug hole is a really good troubleshooting tool. And safer than starting fluid.
 
maylar said:
That's a good sign. An ounce of gasoline in each spark plug hole is a really good troubleshooting tool. And safer than starting fluid.
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Don't forget the thirteen ounces of fresh air, too! (Good Lord, that's almost a pound of mixture :-) )
Oh, and a few thou of spark would help....
(Forgot to mention: Best if the mixture is freshly squeezed!)
 
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