Shrapnel in Sump

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There are a few easily done things suggested here for a free and pragmatic risk assessment to move forward to a decision:
  1. Inspect interior of oil filter
  2. Inspect sump gauze
  3. Take and Inspect swabs of bottom of crank case with sump plug out
  4. Inspect oil tank gauze filter and interior bottom
  5. Run a magnet thru drained oil
  6. Run drained oil thru a filter
  7. Pull timing cover and Inspect oil pump
 
All excellent things to do that won't take any trouble at all. If those 7 checks all come up 'empty' I think I would take the chance and ride it. Die young and leave a good looking corpse.... oh wait, too late.
I also wondered if having a sump full of oil and draining it moved this piece to the magnet. You could also repeat this by leaving it long enough to fill the sump yet again and see if you don't catch something else. Or, with barrels off, try to create a high energy flush with kerosene or equivalent? Pour in a 5 gallon pail? If I did that and nothing came out it would make me feel better about my odds.
 
I have pulled down engines for one reason or another and found something horrible that was unrelated and unsuspected. What I have discovered over time that pulling apart and rebuilding an engine is fairly quick and easy the annoying part is removing it from the frame and putting it back. Then the awful moment of torching it off and seeing how it goes.
Do the seven checks and then pull it apart! :-O
 
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Why we call it "inspection"...(2018)

'74 Roadster, 43,000 miles (of which, the last 31,000 were well cared, not abused, and there is no reason to think the first 12,000 were different). No unusual noise whatsoever, and I listened. Timing side main has failed.
www.accessnorton.com www.accessnorton.com
 
Did anyone mention that it might be the sump filter mesh retaining washer that has a circlip to keep it in place?
 
grandpaul said:
Did anyone mention that it might be the sump filter mesh retaining washer that has a circlip to keep it in place?
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Yes mentioned and confirmed not that. Way to thick and wide compared to bit and the filter assembly on bike is fully intact.
 
Hard to tell what it once was. From the picture I should guess a 9/16 washer. Try with a round bar to figure out inner diameter. Might be something from the timing side.
 
If you have a draftsman's circle template you can fit the bit into a circle and get an idea of what the diameter was.
 
grandpaul said:
Man, this thread got a LOT of input in a very short time!
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You have to question at which point did the effort to second guess what it might be exceeded just pulling the motor and stripping it?

Shit....if he was close enough....!
 
This looks likely to be part of a main bearing shim from between the crank and the inner bearing race. There have been a number of examples of this occurence posted on here previously. The fact that it is not the same thicknes as a standard shim from Andover Norton is academic since people make shims or use existing parts from other sources and it would be unusual if any machine this age had not been rebuilt a time or two.

I would be inclned to dismantle the engine for peace of mind, it is not that difficult or time consumng to do compared to many other machines.
 
I am studying the Hemmings rebuild videos and the Norman White hardcover book now. Seems biggest challenge is actually removing from, placing back into frame.
White mentions a need to support frame in some kind of stand for when engine is no longer holding everything together between engine plates frame. Is that essential? I only have a front wheel chock setup plus a motorcycle scissor jack. Hemmings starts with engine already out of frame.
 
It does look about right for a main bearing shim, hence the suggestion to check crank end play, but what on earth would lead to a captured shim breaking like that? Has this actually happened?
 
Tornado said:
I am studying the Hemmings rebuild videos and the Norman White hardcover book now. Seems biggest challenge is actually removing from, placing back into frame.
White mentions a need to support frame in some kind of stand for when engine is no longer holding everything together between engine plates frame. Is that essential? I only have a front wheel chock setup plus a motorcycle scissor jack. Hemmings starts with engine already out of frame.
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A jack under the frame will keep everything in place quite nicely. The various frames, plates etc. mentioned are needed if you are going to move the engineless bike around though.
 
Just been going through my box of spares and came across some rocker spindle thrust washers....at 0,015" thick and 0.119" wide, these appear to be a good match to the mystery segment. The arc of the bit does seem to follow the inner/outer diameter of the intact thrust washer, at least roughly...hard to be precise because of the distortion and short length etc.
I did note that at least one thrust washer was absent from a rocker spindle when I took it apart for the head gasket & new valves/guides work 6 months ago. Of course we have no explanation how or when it made it to the sump if this is the origin.

Anyhow, I've reached out to a classic brit bike shop in the region and decided to have him collect the bike for further examination/corrective action. There are a few frame anomalies I've been wanting addressed I'll have him correct if/when the engine is to be pulled. These are a bent frame rail at side stand with the spot welds pulled out and some distortion/denting in the two down tubes likely from "highway" bars/pegs fitted by one of the DPO's.
 
I always dissassemble and reassemble the engine in the frame. I'm a one man show and don't have the upper body strength I used to have. Yes, I know fitting the head is a bit of a fiddle but I don't think it is as bad as it is sometimes made out to be. Just make sure the push rods are as far up in the head as they will go to remove or fit. As you fit each rocker into the pushrod top use a rubber band to secure the other side of the rocker to the rocker cover stud. Much less likely to pop out.
 
htown16 said:
I always dissassemble and reassemble the engine in the frame. I'm a one man show and don't have the upper body strength I used to have. Yes, I know fitting the head is a bit of a fiddle but I don't think it is as bad as it is sometimes made out to be. Just make sure the push rods are as far up in the head as they will go to remove or fit. As you fit each rocker into the pushrod top use a rubber band to secure the other side of the rocker to the rocker cover stud. Much less likely to pop out.
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Yes I figured out head R&R end of last season when the copper HG blew out. Didn't trouble me too much as I had studies up on all the videos showing the process and all the tips offer on this forum.
As I said in my last post here, I will be having bike picked up by a local brit bike shop to have them inspect & possibly dismantle if needed. Just don't think I'm up to the full removal, tear down, re-assembly & install on my own. Don't trust my skills enough not to screw something up.
"A man's gotta know his limitations" --- Clint Eastwood.
 
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