Shrapnel in Sump

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Where your sense of adventure! Stop all the guessing take it apart and show us pics! Please Cheaper to look now then going down the road and having a complete failure.
 
Finally got my bike back from the classic workshop. Been there since late October. Spent way too much $$$ but hey, it should buy peace of mind.

Partial list of what was done:

Cylinder block pulled and sump inspected. No further debris/shrapnel found in sump.
Crank end float within spec. Cam looked fine.
Some scuffs in clynder bores did not hone out so they recommended, I agreed going to first over bore, new pistons and rings.
While engine out I requested they address a few issues on the frame since I acquired bike. Down tubes had some distortion, likely from someone running highway pegs and then having a tip over. Also side stand bracket had pulled out the spot welds from frame. They sent frame to a local frame specialist who confirmed distortion, corrected all issues and powder coated frame, battery box, engine plates, swing arm and stands also done.
New cloth wiring harness installed. New rear iso rubber. Exhaust ports were over size/left hand threaded and was having issues keeping them tight. So head sent off to a shop in Ottawa for threaded inserts to be installed, standard rose nuts now fitted. Copper HG fitted, valves set, carbs dialed in.

They did a test ride and reported all good. We did a test fire up after taking off trailer today and starts first try, idling sweet. Seeing a little smoke out right side. Likely ring seating still happening?

Going over all the mounting bolts to confirm nothing was missed before any trial ride.
 
Yes, smoke is likely just oil in the honing and should reduce when needed in. Could of course be something else though!

The BIG question is: was the mysterious shrapnel, and it’s source, identified ??
 
Fast Eddie said:
Yes, smoke is likely just oil in the honing and should reduce when needed in. Could of course be something else though!

The BIG question is: was the mysterious shrapnel, and it’s source, identified ??
Click to expand...
Well the shop kind of agreed with my best guess, that it appeared to be a segment of rocker spindle washer (thackery?). Nothing was missing from the rockers when they tore it down. And since no path down to sump for such a part from rocker boxes, best guess is it was dropped in when the block was off at some point in the past, maybe even at the factory floor.
Recall I only recently fit a magnetic sump plug and found this at next change.
 
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First test ride: didn't go well!

Heard a rattle from engine after ten minutes of riding three blocks from home. This got louder within a few minutes so I got off and tried to locate the noise, seemed to be from primary case. Stopped engine and push her home (up hill most of the way). Thinking an inner casing bolt had come loose, removed the primary to discover rotor nut freely turning and rotor/sprocket able to move along the crankshaft. The rotor has eaten into the timing scale and basically shredded it in half. Some notching on the rotor face. Alu filings in bottom of chaincase from th scale and rotor face. Serated washer under rotor nut appears to be missing.
Striping clutch apart to redo torque etc.
Im in contact with the workshop and they want to make it right. Likely will just bill them for fresh parts as needed.
Also found a number of fastners around bike not torqued to specs. Engine plates, iso main bolts, fork top nuts. Glad I checked.
 
Ughh! Have they heard of blue loctite?
Especially helpful for the limpwristed.

Glen
 
Tornado said:
First test ride: didn't go well!

Heard a rattle from engine after ten minutes of riding three blocks from home. This got louder within a few minutes so I got off and tried to locate the noise, seemed to be from primary case. Stopped engine and push her home (up hill most of the way). Thinking an inner casing bolt had come loose, removed the primary to discover rotor nut freely turning and rotor/sprocket able to move along the crankshaft. The rotor has eaten into the timing scale and basically shredded it in half. Some notching on the rotor face. Alu filings in bottom of chaincase from th scale and rotor face. Serated washer under rotor nut appears to be missing.
Striping clutch apart to redo torque etc.
Im in contact with the workshop and they want to make it right. Likely will just bill them for fresh parts as needed.
Also found a number of fastners around bike not torqued to specs. Engine plates, iso main bolts, fork top nuts. Glad I checked.
Click to expand...
Bad news - may be best if you fix it yourself as I imagine your confidence in them is waning…
 
Richard Tool said:
Bad news - may be best if you fix it yourself as I imagine your confidence in them is waning…
Click to expand...
I agree. Go through EVERYTHING. Sadly there’s some fasteners you can’t check, but aside from tearing down again, best you can do is check what you can.
 
Tornado said:
First test ride: didn't go well!

Heard a rattle from engine after ten minutes of riding three blocks from home. This got louder within a few minutes so I got off and tried to locate the noise, seemed to be from primary case. Stopped engine and push her home (up hill most of the way). Thinking an inner casing bolt had come loose, removed the primary to discover rotor nut freely turning and rotor/sprocket able to move along the crankshaft. The rotor has eaten into the timing scale and basically shredded it in half. Some notching on the rotor face. Alu filings in bottom of chaincase from th scale and rotor face. Serated washer under rotor nut appears to be missing.
Striping clutch apart to redo torque etc.
Im in contact with the workshop and they want to make it right. Likely will just bill them for fresh parts as needed.
Also found a number of fastners around bike not torqued to specs. Engine plates, iso main bolts, fork top nuts. Glad I checked.
Click to expand...
Hopefully a lesson well learned .... Test rides should be conducted " uphill " ... away from home . Much easier return to home .;)

That being said , Getting the 70 ft lb torque on the rotor nut can be a PITA without the proper tools .. I just reassembled my primary yesterday and for the first time in 23 years i decided that enough was enough . I bolted 6 old clutch plates together and attached them to a piece of steel flat plate 24" long .. Instant tool.. Not fancy like the ones you can buy for $75 but it did the trick with very little effort. No more standing on the rear brake , gearbox in 4th and tongue hanging out opposite the side of the torque wrench ...... and as glen says Blue Loctite

Good luck with your endeavor .
 
Fast Eddie said:
I agree. Go through EVERYTHING. Sadly there’s some fasteners you can’t check, but aside from tearing down again, best you can do is check what you can.
Click to expand...
To clarify, I went through the engine plates, fork fittings, iso's , shock and wheel axle fastners prior to my test ride. The shop had done a test ride before I got it back. Surprised more issues were not picked up then.
I've confirmed no serated washer on the rotor nut. I'm planning to remove inner case to check the final drive sprocket nut as they would have removed it to replace the Gearbox mainshaft seal.
 
Tornado said:
First test ride: didn't go well!

Heard a rattle from engine after ten minutes of riding three blocks from home. This got louder within a few minutes so I got off and tried to locate the noise, seemed to be from primary case. Stopped engine and push her home (up hill most of the way). Thinking an inner casing bolt had come loose, removed the primary to discover rotor nut freely turning and rotor/sprocket able to move along the crankshaft. The rotor has eaten into the timing scale and basically shredded it in half. Some notching on the rotor face. Alu filings in bottom of chaincase from th scale and rotor face. Serated washer under rotor nut appears to be missing.
Striping clutch apart to redo torque etc.
Im in contact with the workshop and they want to make it right. Likely will just bill them for fresh parts as needed.
Also found a number of fastners around bike not torqued to specs. Engine plates, iso main bolts, fork top nuts. Glad I checked.
Click to expand...
This is exactly the reason I do not let anyone work on my bikes
Hope you get it sorted but personally I'd strip the bike again and go through the whole lot to be sure
 
Tornado said:
To clarify, I went through the engine plates, fork fittings, iso's , shock and wheel axle fastners prior to my test ride. The shop had done a test ride before I got it back. Surprised more issues were not picked up then.
I've confirmed no serated washer on the rotor nut. I'm planning to remove inner case to check the final drive sprocket nut as they would have removed it to replace the Gearbox mainshaft seal.
Click to expand...
And that way you can check that the primary case was shimmed correctly and put some Permatex on the mounting bolts.
 
Ron Hulton said:
Hopefully a lesson well learned .... Test rides should be conducted " uphill " ... away from home . Much easier return to home .;)
<snip>
Click to expand...
Reminds of the time I test rode a Harley up a steep hill; steep enough that throttling down slowed me enough to turn around, only to find I had no brakes. :eek:
 
Ron Hulton said:
Not fancy like the ones you can buy for $75 but it did the trick with very little effort. No more standing on the rear brake , gearbox in 4th and tongue hanging out opposite the side of the torque wrench
Click to expand...
When in stock, I sell the AN clutch lock tool (06.1015) for $23.00 plus shipping to forum members. I'm out right now but placing an AN order this week. If you want one email me at marshg@gregmarsh.com. Most AN tools are inexpensive as long as someone is not ripping you off.
 
gortnipper said:
And that way you can check that the primary case was shimmed correctly and put some Permatex on the mounting bolts.
Click to expand...
I agree also replace the mainshaft clutch circlip
And if fitted throw the clutch center nut tab washer away and use loctite
And add loctite to the chain case to crankcase bolts
 
baz said:
I agree also replace the mainshaft clutch circlip
And if fitted throw the clutch center nut tab washer away and use loctite
And add loctite to the chain case to crankcase bolts
Click to expand...
Yes I took the inner fixing bolts off lastnight and they had been locktited (blue) as I had requested that during the work (I've had one come loose in hte past despite new tab washers). I've used loctite on the clutch nut in the past withtabbed washer still in place for good measure. Will do this again.
 
Ron Hulton said:
Hopefully a lesson well learned .... Test rides should be conducted " uphill " ... away from home . Much easier return to home .;)

That being said , Getting the 70 ft lb torque on the rotor nut can be a PITA without the proper tools .. I just reassembled my primary yesterday and for the first time in 23 years i decided that enough was enough . I bolted 6 old clutch plates together and attached them to a piece of steel flat plate 24" long .. Instant tool.. Not fancy like the ones you can buy for $75 but it did the trick with very little effort. No more standing on the rear brake , gearbox in 4th and tongue hanging out opposite the side of the torque wrench ...... and as glen says Blue Loctite

Good luck with your endeavor .
Click to expand...
I do have the clutch locking tool (from OldBritts) and know how to use it . I've done the primary case strip down at least 4 or 5 times in the 4 yrs I've had this bike.
 
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