Shrapnel in Sump

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Kind of hard to believe something that big came through the oil pump. Might be interesting to take off the spin on oil filter, cut it open and see if there is more shrapnel inside.
 
Obviously not a piece of piston ring but I post this to illustrate just how powerful the oil path can be . When I tore down my Commando and removed the oil pump I found a piece of ring being fed into the scavenge gears of the pump . Keep in mind that I already had pulled the barrels and the rings/ pistons were sound and intact and the cylinder walls unscored and still showed evidence of cross hatching everywhere. The piece of ring being munched on by the pump must have been in the sump or on it’s way to the pump during all off my ownership and part of the previous owners as well as the only plausible explanation is that someone in the past did a ring job and a piece of ring wound up in the sump at some point . The piece that can be seen in the photo protruding into the timing chest / pump location was 5/8 “ long .
To get to the pump it had to negotiate several 90 degree bends in the oilway , the diameter of said oilway being something like 3/16 “ ?? I found yet a smaller piece in the pump itself and a blob which had been forge welded to the scavenge gears from the pressure of being squeezed between the gears . I could not turn the pump over by hand past this blob yet the engine ran fine for me and I have no idea how long this condition existed during the few years I owned and rode it before tearing it down . Note also the damaged teeth on pump gears but not a mark on their bores in the pump body or end plates - go figure .
Shrapnel in Sump


Shrapnel in Sump
 
Well one of thrust washers could have been dropped inside the crank case but whereis the rest of it?
 
Tornado said:
At nearly 3mm wide and curved, I'd struggle to see how it could get through the pump.
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It might if the pump body or gears were fucked.. I know it sounds like clutching at straws but a Po could have dropped something in the cases..
 
oldmikew said:
Well one of thrust washers could have been dropped inside the crank case but whereis the rest of it?
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Presumably still milling around in the case or trapped in the sump filter gauze. Note I found this on the mag drain bolt, not the big scavenge gauze drain bolt. Guess I'll have that off next to inspect and then poke about with my bendy mag pick up tool.
 
Tornado said:
Presumably still milling around in the case or trapped in the sump filter gauze. Note I found this on the mag drain bolt, not the big scavenge gauze drain bolt. Guess I'll have that off next to inspect and then poke about with my bendy mag pick up tool.
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Good idea.
 
I'm going to be positive for no good reason other than I seldom am. I'm with you on thinking it was dropped in the cases long ago. If you haven't had the bike forever, a previous engine builder half awake and in a big hurry could have dropped something in there and kept trucking on the build. The shape of the partial circumference would no longer be correct having been beaten around under the crank. It looks to be about the right thickness of any number of busted up washers. Point is the motor is not trashed yet, and may never be. I'm not sure what I would do to be honest. However, if I could figure out how to run a magnet inside the cases, that is where I would start looking for more clues (been mentioned). Later I might get all negative doom and gloom and tear the motor apart,

A piece of ring that size would probably slow the motor down suddenly.
 
over 50years ago when mine was newi had the carbs off to clean and then couls not find one of the spring washers. Could not have dropped inside the engine I thought ? but it had . And I was very verycareful
 
So shit can happen... I would have a poke around to see what else yu might find... I f it runs no differently from over the previous 4 years .. no new knocks taps or vibrations then I would not worry too much .
 
You can work for ever to achieve peace of mind long after the original prblem is fixed. Its a trap best nt to fall into
 
When I first got my Commando I took out the sump plug and found that the snap ring had come out and the washer was in the bottom of the case. Fortunately I was able to use my finger, a magnet and with a little bit of flushing I satisfied myself there was nothing else floating around. That was at least 30,000 miles ago. I was lucky that the evidence was there because the parts were missing from the sump plug. I suppose the same thing could have happened to someone else who wasn't diligent in their search and just replaced the parts in the sump plug or missed it. Seems like the sump washer is about that thickness, you could pop the sump washer out and compare it.
 
OK, sump filter off. No signs of more metal, just the odd bit of what appeared to be carbon lumps trapped in the gauze. All parts of the filter assembly present and accounted for. Crushable and crumbly, non-magnetic. Using my mag pick-up bendy thingie, nothing other than oil came out from poking into sump, trying to get the pickup up and over the tube surrounding the opening. Not a very comprehensive test though.
 
drp said:
When I first got my Commando I took out the sump plug and found that the snap ring had come out and the washer was in the bottom of the case. Fortunately I was able to use my finger, a magnet and with a little bit of flushing I satisfied myself there was nothing else floating around. That was at least 30,000 miles ago. I was lucky that the evidence was there because the parts were missing from the sump plug. I suppose the same thing could have happened to someone else who wasn't diligent in their search and just replaced the parts in the sump plug or missed it. Seems like the sump washer is about that thickness, you could pop the sump washer out and compare it.
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That sump filter washer is way too big/wide for what I found, see image I posted from AN's site of it vs what I found.
 
Schwany said:
I'm going to be positive for no good reason other than I seldom am. I'm with you on thinking it was dropped in the cases long ago. If you haven't had the bike forever, a previous engine builder half awake and in a big hurry could have dropped something in there and kept trucking on the build. The shape of the partial circumference would no longer be correct having been beaten around under the crank. It looks to be about the right thickness of any number of busted up washers. Point is the motor is not trashed yet, and may never be. I'm not sure what I would do to be honest. However, if I could figure out how to run a magnet inside the cases, that is where I would start looking for more clues (been mentioned). Later I might get all negative doom and gloom and tear the motor apart,

A piece of ring that size would probably slow the motor down suddenly.
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My last compression check a few weeks ago, since doing the head gasket & valve work some months ago, showed 145 psi right, 135 psi left. That was hot engine with throttle wide open.
From my last ride a few days ago, engine seems to make very nice power, accel's hard going up steep mountain roads. Oil pressure guage also shows good psi at startup (40-50 psi) and while riding....nearly 10 psi for every 1k rpm when warmed up.
 
concours said:
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Digital Inspection Camera

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I actually had a cheapo bore scope (type that displays on your phone or laptop screen) on order from AliBaba in the "before times"....never arrived and cancelled order after 3 months. Was going to use it down the plug holes to inspect the cylinders.
 
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