one piece rear axle (2012)

[madass140]

with an overall axle length of 280 including 30mm of thread, using 3mm washers and the 25mm long nut screwed all the way home with
5mm of thread protruding thru the nut there is a space between the washers of 221mm which doesnt leave any room for "compression"of the swingarm
when a standard swingarm is 221mm outside to outside.

 

[Mr. Rick]

Okay, you think 221, I maintain it's 224 minimum. Either way, let's agree we can target 220 to give us some compression.
I need to use the extra washers as noted, to clear the adjusters, so I'm gonna have 30 at each end, means 280 OAL.
Please think about a price for this and also a SS spacer 060324, if you have one for sale?
Thanks again, Don.

 

[acadian]

Just took some measurements of my setup with Don's 1 piece axle:

Assembled total OD of my swing arm is 225mm (~1mm)

drive side (axle installed from this side)

timing side (note full thread engagement through nut)

 

[madass140]

you obviously already have spacer 060324 that was already fitted to your bike so i wont supply that.
I will send you the longer axle as you requested tomorrow at no cost to you. Its 10 pm so I can not give you tracking until the morning
Don

 

[DogT]

The single piece axle I got for my 69 was short too, but it was because I had powder coat on a lot of the parts that never had it originally. I think the axle missed being flush in the nut by 3/8' or more. I removed the P/C and now it's OK. Could differences in finish cause these dimensional differences? I would think so, there's at least 6 surfaces involved.

 

[Mr. Rick]

Thanks, Acadian, for posting those pics. I see your adjuster just cleared the head of the bolt, mine was just touching.
Also, 225 is pretty much exactly what I found as well, for distance between washers.

DogT: Yes a thick powder coat on the SA wd skew the results. Mine has almost nothing at all; most of the paint is scraped off in the contact areas.

Don: True, I don't need a spacer, just wanted to dress things up a little w SS, to match the nice new parts.
And I wd prefer to pay. For the spacer, of course, and something for the longer axle too.
I'd be happy to return this one at my expense, as well.
Thanks--
Rick

 

[DogT]

Not only the swing arm surfaces, but the brake cover plate, not sure about the later bikes, but at least on the non-cush drive models, that's where I came up with 6 surfaces. There may be more, I can't remember. All I know is when I removed the P/C it all came together and the axle bolt came all the way through the nut. With the cush drive there may be an issue with the extra bearing in later models, don't know for real though. I've been real happy with my single piece.

 

[madass140]

New axle, nut and washers have been shipped, I pm'd you the tracking
Don

 

[850commando]

Don forgive me for hijacking this thread, i have a related question regarding the stub axle not sticking all the way through the drive side nut, this is still on the regular dummy axle setup. this bike was a basket case so i'm fitting it together for the first time

the bearing went in fine and the circlip fit in nicely, i had the drum all apart for cleaning . and i think the gapfrom the brake plate to the drum is slightly more than i expected. and the dummy axle is short, not all the way through the nut.

suggestions anyone?

 

[madass140]

are you sure you have the correct dummy axle . the flats on the shaft should be .300" long (7.5mm) and the thread length is 1"
Is the bearing hard up against the circlip?

 

[Mr. Rick]

With the cush drive there may be an issue with the extra bearing in later models, don't know for real though

This comment prompted me to measure the "stack height" of the components; maybe I have more "stuff" between the SA plates than normal?
So as best as I cd determine, the main components (speedo drive on the right through the wheel, hub, and to the brake arm and spacer on the left) come to 171.
33 more for the RH spacer 060324, and 16 more for the SA plates makes the total 220. Don's 221 is looking better; where the extra 4 or 5 are coming from, no idea.

And a further question: As we torque down the axle in the vain attempt to go past 220 or 221 (assuming we have the threads to do so), are we not mashing the spacers against the bearings? Is that how it was designed?

 

[850commando]

are you sure you have the correct dummy axle . the flats on the shaft should be .300" long (7.5mm) and the thread length is 1"
Is the bearing hard up against the circlip?

i will have to check when i get back home... about the dummy axle dim's. not sure about the bearing being tight to the circlip. what is the concern? i think the bearing bottomed out in the drum... but the dummy axle was still free floating.

 

[madass140]

well if the bearing bottomed out and the circlip is sitting against the bearing then all good in that department.

 

[o0norton0o]

And a further question: As we torque down the axle in the vain attempt to go past 220 or 221 (assuming we have the threads to do so), are we not mashing the spacers against the bearings? Is that how it was designed?

On my rear wheel set up which is adapted for a yamaha cast wheel, I have a one piece 17mm axle. When I torque the axle bolt, it compresses the spacers, swingarm forks, drum brake center, and only the bearing's inner races. The outter races of the bearings aren't under pressure against the wheel hub because there's a center spacer on the axle shaft inside my hub which keeps the inner races at their proper distance apart so they are not driving the balls and outter races inward against the hub. So, the inner races and spacers are under pressure from the axle nut torque, but not the balls, outer races, or the wheel hub.

I'm not sure how madass's one piece axle works, but common sense would tell me it's similar to mine.

I really should look at how the 2 piece axle works, because I wonder why it was even designed the way it is. What was the benefit of the 2 piece axle??? Was there some reason to make the commando axle in 2 pieces??

 

[Deets55]

And a further question: As we torque down the axle in the vain attempt to go past 220 or 221 (assuming we have the threads to do so), are we not mashing the spacers against the

I really should look at how the 2 piece axle works, because I wonder why it was even designed the way it is. What was the benefit of the 2 piece axle??? Was there some reason to make the commando axle in 2 pieces??

On my '75 the two piece axle allows you to remove the rear wheel without disturbing the chain or sprocket. Simply remove the axle from the right side, drop the spacer, move the caliper holder out of the way and the wheel comes out. Not sure about earlier bikes.

 

[o0norton0o]

And a further question: As we torque down the axle in the vain attempt to go past 220 or 221 (assuming we have the threads to do so), are we not mashing the spacers against the bearings? Is that how it was designed?

I really should look at how the 2 piece axle works, because I wonder why it was even designed the way it is. What was the benefit of the 2 piece axle??? Was there some reason to make the commando axle in 2 pieces??

On my '75 the two piece axle allows you to remove the rear wheel without disturbing the chain or sprocket. Simply remove the axle from the right side, drop the spacer, move the caliper holder out of the way and the wheel comes out. Not sure about earlier bikes.

Hey Pete, When I had my stock '70 rear wheel with the 2 piece axle on my bike, I think I could pull that rear wheel without disturbing the chain too, but most of the time I would pull the master link on the chain to make it simpler. My customized one piece axle set up doesn't make it any harder to remove the wheel in the same way you specified... Pull the axle, drop the big spacer, disengage the chain from the rear sprocket and slide the wheel backward passing the chain (avoiding the fender by angling the wheel)

I really don't see why a norton has a 2 piece axle, but I bet there's some reason. The fact that Don makes a one piece axle to replace the 2 piece axle pretty much shows that the 2 piece axle wasn't necessary, and as far as I can see it doesn't have any advantages. (but I'm sure there's some reason that it was made this way that I am overlooking)

I'm interested in "why" norton did this 2 piece axle if anyone knows... (OCD kicking in... :lol: )

 

[Bob Z.]

I suppose the 2-part rear axle makes it a bit easier to remove the rear wheel without disturbing the chain and sprocket.
Perhaps a carry-over from the days when full enclosed drive chains were common.
Even when the featherbed framed Atlas had the 3 long nuts holding the hub to the sprocket, it was a chore to change the rear tire.

The Mark 3 Commando with rear disc brake is difficult to replace the rear wheel for a one-man job.
Not only do you have to hold the wheel up against the splines on the sprocket, you need to align the caliper carrier while inserting the axle through the right side chain adjuster and spacer.

How many Mark 3 owners still have that caliper hanger located on the rear frame loop?

 

[L.A.B.]

I really don't see why a norton has a 2 piece axle, but I bet there's some reason. The fact that Don makes a one piece axle to replace the 2 piece axle pretty much shows that the 2 piece axle wasn't necessary, and as far as I can see it doesn't have any advantages. (but I'm sure there's some reason that it was made this way that I am overlooking)

I'm interested in "why" norton did this 2 piece axle if anyone knows... (OCD kicking in... :lol: )

Of course we know, because we've read Section H of our manual. :wink: The dummy axle allows wheel removal without having to disturb the chain/sprocket/brake assembly.

 

[L.A.B.]

The Mark 3 Commando with rear disc brake is difficult to replace the rear wheel for a one-man job.
Not only do you have to hold the wheel up against the splines on the sprocket, you need to align the caliper carrier while inserting the axle through the right side chain adjuster and spacer.

I hang the wheel on the splines and support it in that position (by inserting something between the tyre and the ground) as I do the axle refitting.

How many Mark 3 owners still have that caliper hanger located on the rear frame loop?

Yes, but only because I put one there.

 

[Mr. Rick]

The dummy axle allows wheel removal without having to disturb the chain/sprocket/brake assembly.
Exactly right.
And in principle, you can do this with the one-piece axle too, just pulling it our leftward, far enough to let the wheel go, while leaving the sprocket, etc. in place.
What actually happens though, is that there is a certain amount of jostling around as the wheel hub bumps into the cush drive pins while you try to line things up putting it back together.
With the 2-pc setup, the sprocket assy is still bolted to the LH swingarm and can't fall out of the brake plate slot (although it still wiggles around a bit).
With the 1-pc axle, only gravity and friction are holding and it's easy to dislodge the drum. What worked for me was to use a length (about 3 foot) of thin electrical wire, looped around the sprocket, inside the teeth, and tied off to the LH silencer, to hold it temporarily. That, and a block of wood of the right thickness under the wheel to bear the weight of the wheel, permits easier re-fitting. No such thing as a free lunch.
Still, this extra hassle is far outweighed in my case by the peace of mind. Two days ago, when I showed my new 1-pc to Jerry, he told me that he too had seen the 2-pc break, on a Commando he was following. No crash, but only by luck.