Wiring for Super Dummies (Me!)

swooshdave · Feb 8, 2010

Ok, so I get a little lost with all the little icons and symbols in a wiring diagram. I was to know what plugs where with what color wire. I've started to sketch out the ignition wiring based on the Old Britts diagram, but I want to add relays wherever possible.

I'm making the following assumptions: Pre-75, negative ground, Boyer, Dyna-type coil, and a custom harness.

So far this is what I've come up with.

So far my questions are:

1. I thought Ground wires are Black on negative ground systems. Why are they white here (following Old Britts diagram)?
2. Shouldn't the Ground from the Boyer go back to the Battery Ground? I want to avoid any Frame Grounds.
3. Did I put the relay in the right place?
4. Where would the Kill Switch go?
5. Are there enough Fuses?

Once we figure the ignition out, I'll move to lighting or charging.

Jeandr · Feb 9, 2010

swooshdave said:
Ok, so I get a little lost with all the little icons and symbols in a wiring diagram. I was to know what plugs where with what color wire. I've started to sketch out the ignition wiring based on the Old Britts diagram, but I want to add relays wherever possible.

I'm making the following assumptions: Pre-75, negative ground, Boyer, Dyna-type coil, and a custom harness.
So far my questions are:
1. I thought Ground wires are Black on negative ground systems. Why are they white here (following Old Britts diagram)?
2. Shouldn't the Ground from the Boyer go back to the Battery Ground? I want to avoid any Frame Grounds.
3. Did I put the relay in the right place?
4. Where would the Kill Switch go?
5. Are there enough Fuses?

Once we figure the ignition out, I'll move to lighting or charging.

Take a look here: wiring-diagrams-t4725.html?hilit= wiring

1- you can use any color you want if you make your own wiring harness, Old Brits follow Norton's color scheme
2- eitherwould work as long as the ground is good
3- sortof, the switch should turn the relay on and the + from the battery should be switched by the relay
4- anywhere it could stop the spark, you could short the pickups, open the path to the relay or open the connection to the Boyer
5- one fuse for ignition, then fuse the other circuits (maybe one for lights, one for the rest)

Jean

rbt11548 · Feb 9, 2010

swooshdave said:
2. Shouldn't the Ground from the Boyer go back to the Battery Ground? I want to avoid any Frame Grounds.
3. Did I put the relay in the right place?

Hi swooshdave, this may help, (then again!!!)..... it is my relay wiring for my ignition box, 86 goes to h/bar "KILL", 30 to "BAT", 87 feeds "IGNIT" unit, & 85 "EARTH"

Also, boyer diagram NEG earth, , the diagram shows the earth going to the frame but you can put the earth where you want , I have all my earths connected to a multi spade connector, the "yellow and white" feeding the boyer would be coming from the "KILL" switch via your relay.

Robert

swooshdave · Feb 9, 2010

Jeandr said:
Take a look here: wiring-diagrams-t4725.html?hilit= wiring

Jean

Hmmm, first person to reply to that thread was...

Ok, I'll take those drawings and improve mine. I might even try to make a wiring diagram to scale. The things to do when waiting for parts and paint...

swooshdave · Feb 9, 2010

Ok, now how did I do?

I assume ignition switch means the key switch?

I know that I can make the wires any color I want, but am I correct in that black is typically ground and red hot?

BrianK · Feb 9, 2010

Red is ground for Nortons (e.g., look where your kill switch circuit terminates)! That counterintuitive fact takes some getting used to!

swooshdave · Feb 9, 2010

BrianK said:
Red is ground for Nortons (e.g., look where your kill switch circuit terminates)! That counterintuitive fact takes some getting used to!

Isn't that just because it's a positive ground system, at least stock?

Jeandr · Feb 9, 2010

swooshdave said:
Ok, now how did I do?

I assume ignition switch means the key switch?

I know that I can make the wires any color I want, but am I correct in that black is typically ground and red hot?

Close, you have both terminals of the relay coil connected to ground, no power to the relay, no click and no power to the Boyer. #86 terminal should go to the kill switch and using the unused terminal (on your diagram), connect that to the positive (blue/brown). Your kil switch MUST have a set on normaly closed contacts (open for kill) for this scheme to work.

Jean

swooshdave · Feb 10, 2010

Jeandr said:
Close, you have both terminals of the relay coil connected to ground, no power to the relay, no click and no power to the Boyer. #86 terminal should go to the kill switch and using the unused terminal (on your diagram), connect that to the positive (blue/brown). Your kil switch MUST have a set on normaly closed contacts (open for kill) for this scheme to work.

Jean

Don't I have 86 going to the kill switch? I thought I had followed Robert's diagram above.

Power to the relay coming in from the ignition switch to 30.
Ground on 85.
87 to the Boyer ignition.
86 to the Kill switch, which, if I understand should be closed and grounded, when opened it will kill the circuit? Should there be power coming in to 86 from the kill switch?

Trust me when I say I barely know what I'm doing here. Power to one side and ground to the other I get, but a relay? :shock:

I'll correct the kill switch error in a bit.

rbt11548 · Feb 10, 2010

swooshdave said:
[

Don't I have 86 going to the kill switch? I thought I had followed Robert's diagram above.

Power to the relay coming in from the ignition switch to 30.
Ground on 85.
87 to the Boyer ignition.
86 to the Kill switch, which, if I understand should be closed and grounded, when opened it will kill the circuit? Should there be power coming in to 86 from the kill switch?

Trust me when I say I barely know what I'm doing here. Power to one side and ground to the other I get, but a relay? :shock:
.

Hi Swooshdave, we'll get you there!, the guys on here helped me tremendously when I was wiring mine.
See if this helps a bit..
One side of the kill switch is fed from the ignition switch, the other wire,(Yellow & white I think), goes to 86 on the relay , this gives you power to the relay when the "Kill" switch and ignition switch are ON.

The Blue & Brown wire on mine is fed directly to 30 from the battery via a fuse, this should give the ignition unit close to 12 volts, as it is not going through the various switches losing volts.
87 is the feed to your ignition unit box,
30 & 87 are only connected when the kill switch is ON, as when switched ON the connection allows a low current to go to the relay which trips a switch in the relay allowing hopefully 12v of electricity to flow to the ignition unit .
85 is your earth.

You'll get it sussed , took me a wee while but I managed it , and I hate electricity, you can't see it and it hurts you!!!!
Robert

swooshdave · Feb 10, 2010

rbt11548 said:
You'll get it sussed , took me a wee while but I managed it , and I hate electricity, you can't see it and it hurts you!!!!
Robert

I've had British cars in the past, I can see electricity. It looks like smoke.

Ok, updated drawing later. Thanks! I've already sketched out the lighting circuit. Yes, you should be scared. :mrgreen:

BrianK · Feb 10, 2010

swooshdave said:
BrianK said:

Red is ground for Nortons (e.g., look where your kill switch circuit terminates)! That counterintuitive fact takes some getting used to!

Click to expand...

Isn't that just because it's a positive ground system, at least stock?

Yes, exactly. The convention is red for positive, black for negative. Since most vehicles (all of them today I believe) are negative ground, that means black is usually ground. But a positive ground system like a Norton's will have red ground wires.

Coco · Feb 10, 2010

I am a self professed electro-retard. I'm sure you are better at this stuff than me, and I made a harness from scratch no problem and it was very easy.

You're going to negative ground correct?

swooshdave · Feb 10, 2010

Coco said:
I am a self professed electro-retard. I'm sure you are better at this stuff than me, and I made a harness from scratch no problem and it was very easy.

You're going to negative ground correct?

Yes, specifically for the LED turnsignals and taillight.

swooshdave · Feb 10, 2010

rbt11548 said:
swooshdave said:

[

Don't I have 86 going to the kill switch? I thought I had followed Robert's diagram above.

Power to the relay coming in from the ignition switch to 30.
Ground on 85.
87 to the Boyer ignition.
86 to the Kill switch, which, if I understand should be closed and grounded, when opened it will kill the circuit? Should there be power coming in to 86 from the kill switch?

Trust me when I say I barely know what I'm doing here. Power to one side and ground to the other I get, but a relay? :shock:
.

Click to expand...

Hi Swooshdave, we'll get you there!, the guys on here helped me tremendously when I was wiring mine.
See if this helps a bit..
One side of the kill switch is fed from the ignition switch, the other wire,(Yellow & white I think), goes to 86 on the relay , this gives you power to the relay when the "Kill" switch and ignition switch are ON.

The Blue & Brown wire on mine is fed directly to 30 from the battery via a fuse, this should give the ignition unit close to 12 volts, as it is not going through the various switches losing volts.
87 is the feed to your ignition unit box,
30 & 87 are only connected when the kill switch is ON, as when switched ON the connection allows a low current to go to the relay which trips a switch in the relay allowing hopefully 12v of electricity to flow to the ignition unit .
85 is your earth.

You'll get it sussed , took me a wee while but I managed it , and I hate electricity, you can't see it and it hurts you!!!!
Robert

I swear I got it now. Please tell me I'm right. :mrgreen:

I assume the benefit of the relay is that the current doesn't have to pass through the kill switch before heading to the ignition, thus a weak connection at the kill switch won't have an adverse affect on the ignition. Or do you "throttle down" the current going through the kill switch for any reason?

L.A.B. · Feb 10, 2010

rbt11548 said:
The Blue & Brown wire on mine is fed directly to 30 from the battery via a fuse, this should give the ignition unit close to 12 volts, as it is not going through the various switches losing volts.

I tend to agree with Robert, that it would be better if the power supply to the relay (terminal 30) was fed directly from the battery (via a fuse) or at least from the other side of the ignition switch, rather than having to pass through the switch, which is unnecessary?

Also, the ground wire from the kill switch is unnecessary.

norbsa48503 · Feb 10, 2010

I had a three relay kit built for me by Eastern Beaver Jim does a professional job with relays rated for the tough environment yet small. All the wire sizes are right all the connections are done with the right crimpers and everything is waterproof shrink wrapped. The three relays have their own leads that go right back to the battery with a fuse.
The leads that go out to the switches and devices are all you have to do yourself.
When the relays have their own power source they can feed the device direct from the battery and all that is required of the switch is to trip the relay. This is a much lower that 12 volts. I use these on Commando’s to do Bright, Dim, and horn.
Putting one in the middle of your main power route to the Boyer box with a key switch supply just doesn’t work for me.

swooshdave · Feb 10, 2010

norbsa48503 said:
When the relays have their own power source they can feed the device direct from the battery and all that is required of the switch is to trip the relay. This is a much lower that 12 volts. I use these on Commando’s to do Bright, Dim, and horn.
Putting one in the middle of your main power route to the Boyer box with a key switch supply just doesn’t work for me.

Removed Kill Switch Ground, Moved Power Feed to 30 directly from Battery via Fuse.

I think what the relay in the ignition circuit does is eliminate any noticeable losses from the ignition/kill switch devices, especially if you are using original switches or even repos. Since I'm doing this from scratch it's not that big of a deal as long as it's done right. I think you can put the kill switch anywhere so does this placement make the most sense?

Jeandr · Feb 10, 2010

Now you got it. Again, I must reiterate, the kill switch must have some normally closed contacts for this scheme to work. Also, you can use smaller gauge wires (#18 or #20) for the relay control wiring and heavier gauge for the ones going from the battery -- fuse -- relay --- electronic ignition -- AND ground, #14 is more than enough.

Jean

swooshdave · Feb 10, 2010

Jeandr said:
Now you got it. Again, I must reiterate, the kill switch must have some normally closed contacts for this scheme to work. Also, you can use smaller gauge wires (#18 or #20) for the relay control wiring and heavier gauge for the ones going from the battery -- fuse -- relay --- electronic ignition -- AND ground, #14 is more than enough.

Jean

Is the stock kill switch normally open or closed?

Now let me hit you guys with the next one. Again this was stolen from the other threads but I plan on, when you guys have approved my schemes, to lay this out in a different format.

What is the Main Switch? The ignition? There is a light switch and a Dip Switch. I guess that's what all the buttons on the handlebars are for...

And yes, I know I wouldn't be asking all these stupid questions if my Interstate was sitting next to me instead of 3000 miles away.

Wiring for Super Dummies (Me!)

swooshdave

Jeandr

rbt11548

swooshdave

swooshdave

BrianK

swooshdave

Jeandr

swooshdave

rbt11548

swooshdave

BrianK

Coco

swooshdave

swooshdave

L.A.B.

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