Wideline -vs- slim line? dimensions? mounts?
- Thread starter internetannoyance
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If you are fittin the Jawa engine, you buy the $300 oil re turn pump from MIke Farrell in Queensland, or you use crankcase compression to blow the oil back into the tank. The bike is capable of beating the best manxes. I discussed a replica XR750 with my bikey gang friend about two years ago, and he mentione d that you can buy close gear clusters for the sporsters. but how do you get two front cylinder heads to fit ?
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------acotrel said:
The frame im using is a wideline.. this started about 8-9 years ago. I had gotten out of HDs for a long time as it was,, well embarassing for a while there with the whole HD craze. Most of my xperience was early HD stuff and now illusions about performance of them. But a friend left his Evo sporty with me for a month, mildly hopped up 883 converted to 1200, Screaming chicken heads, SE Cams, SE ign and SE mufflers. It was a world of difference from the old iron head sportys or shovels and pans i knew. I really liked it. Now much of the HD craze has waned and prices of Sportys and Buells are cheap.
I got a package deal of a basement full of Sportys (Evo and iron head) and sold off enough of them that i have 4 evo sportys (1988, 1992, 1996 and 1999) that are basically free or at a profit I also have the soon to be gone 86 sporty daily rider and my wifes 2000 sportster plus i have 2 buells. I like the later 5 speed sportsters, and parts if you shop wisely are cheap.
I got out a tape measure and did some research,. A sportster or pre rubber mount buell engine WILL fit in a slimline except for the top frame rails, but a wideline no problem. On mockup, we will establish the stock Wideline but in final form likely will have an inch or so of stretch just to give a little room.
Baker crivetrain and Andrew gears both offer alternative gear choics including a 6 speed box as well. Kenny Dreer had a lightly used 6 speed for sale recently but even at the discounted price was around $1800 dollars and i can buy a wrecked buell for that, tempting as it was, but if you have ever ridden a tube frame Buell they really dont need any upgrades, Stock they produce 100hp at the crank, a ignition box, and aftermarket pipes are enough, full tilt upgrade to the miknui HSR carbs. Its hard to keep the front wheel on the ground stock let alone tweaked.
Im more of country putt putt rider, occasional blasts of accelleration, no racing. I have a wide range of interests and my wife wont let me build performance aircraft so i enjoy custom bikes and cars but also like restored classics. In this bike im looking at mechanical art with a performance focus and artform. If i was rational i would just buy a used hyaBusa instead of what im doing. I have BSA Goldstars, performance wise they really arent that impressive but I think they are just cool. this bike is the same thing.
I have no interest in doing a JAWA, not sure where that came from. But I have some pictures of an amazing vintage Bultaco raod racer, so I have this other crazy idea. I have a 1979 Kaw KDX400 which is an insane 2 stroke dirt bike. no rational person would ride one in the woods where i live, maybe okay out on the sand, but insane anywhere else, so im making it into a cafe road racer replica for the street
For the bodywork style look on the airtec website and look at vintage Kawasaki, and the fairing and angular tank and seat for the "Mean green " bikes. No one around here has anything like it and would be fun to scare the bejesus out of women,small children and the people on the vintage club rides i go on locally
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----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------acotrel said:
If you shop carefully, you can upgrade the evo sportys quite easily and not for very much money. The cafe racer sporty thing has really taken off. there are a number of forums, besides Jockey Journal. theres 2 pretty good forums for Sportsters/buells and i mine data from them, Plus the Sportster performance handbook is prettty good with everything you need to know. There are a number of people who have documented a "how to" on the upgrades.
its generally easier and cheaper to start with a 883, a 1200 kit can be as cheap as 175-300 dollars and ready made new bolt on kit with cyls, pistons, gaskets and sundrys will be approx $500-600, upgrade exhaust, air filter, &Jetting and thats called a stage one tuning. you can get 65hp very easily with that.
Stock cams are actually pretty good,,,
Add in cams, performance ignition and upgraded carbs and 75-85 hp.
Add performance heads and more tweaking and you are up in Buell territory with 85-105hp and not unheard of to see 125 hp but then you are in short longevity range with frequent rebuilds to keep from ventilating.
I forget the exact year but i think its 1994 when they went to the 5 speed stock. Anthing that left the factory witha beltdrive is a 5 speed, Unlike a british bike where 5th gear is 1:1 most sportys feel like 5th is an overdrive. you can buy alternative gearsets for CR or 6 speeds for a true overdrive and anything in between,
As I said, Cafe racer Sportsters are the new hot ticket, Right now s the time to buy a project, cheap cheap cheap. Id consider selling one of my Sporsters right now to fund current projects
But you can fnd a lifestyle biker who lost the dream out there hard up for cash an desperate for cash selling alow mileage 883 or 1200 for $2500-3500, take off all the "live to ride" bling, peddle that crap on feebayand make a decent cafe racer, or upgrade to purpose built featherbed, use late model sport bike forks, wheels,brakes and suspension (Cheap,, price that stuff for wrecked GSXR ,CBR or Speedtriples)
Converesely, Anything Norton is going thru the roof price wise. Im glad i already have a pile of Nortons but you can build something really cool without going broke if you put some thought into it. do a websearch for "Cafe Sportster" for images
I built up my wifes 2000 sporty into a nice bike for less than a full auto head or a JS racing short rod kit. I have less than $900 into it. her Commando buildis going to be about 3x that with her and I doing all the work
I'm delighted that you've started this project, I plan to do something similar. I have acqired a slimline rolling chassis and just yesterday a friend og mine currently in L.A. got me a 1975 Ironhead motor.
I am going to assemble mine with Whitworth nuts and bolts and call it a 'Hardley Worthit', although I feel that it will indeed be worthit!
I am going to assemble mine with Whitworth nuts and bolts and call it a 'Hardley Worthit', although I feel that it will indeed be worthit!
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------dave M said:
Cool, there was a local guy who built one,, I started mine and found out about him after i started collecting parts, but his is interesting. Look it up, do a search for the Nortley Fartster. theres a guy named Hackasaw who started one with a featherbed and a Harley 45 with a Magnum kit on it, He was calling his a "Hardon" and said "Slow on the straights, fast in the corners". more people building them.
I had a number of iron heads over the years from a 1960 to a 1983, they are rather farm equipment-ish.. they have their character. But i got out of them, even had several this year in a package deal I bought, but sold all my iron head stuff off this summer. I dont intend to get any more.
You would find unless you really have a love of the Iron heads, the special tools, and parts you would be better off with a Evo motor.
plus, any sporty motor will not fit a slimline unless you modify the top frame rails.. you COULD convert your slim line to wideline specs,, but they are still a bit tight. thats why with my butchered Wideline we are lengthening it a a inch or 2 over stock, the vincent guys have similar issues stuff a vinnie in one with out butchering the stock vinnie motor to fit.
other than that.. lots of fun. feel free to keep in touch. I can email pix off list. will update this list with pix this coming week,
I opted for the ironhead motor because I want to do a period special, as you rightly pointed out earlier an evo engine in a Buell frame is a fine motorcycle. I know the evo is a better engine but I want something that it would have been possible to build in the 60s or 70s.
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-----------------------------------------------------------------dave M said:
OKAY, GET YOUR POINT. I totally relate to that concept. There is no lack of vintage sportster tech and still some old guys who will help with tech.
If you like, i can make you copies of some of my tech materials. For the cost of postage ill send you a disc with Iron head parts books and manuals from 58 to the 1980s.
For a small fee to cover my time I can make you quality reprints of the "Sportster builders guide" a period 1970s book,, ill have to look but i think its 125 pages or so, chopper tips, rebuilding, electrical, forks, etc etc..
also I have the Jammer Chopper guide vols 1,2 &3 version with variety of topics and tech plus cheesy 70s nekkid chickies... another period publication circa 1980 or so.. approx 80 pages
also AEE Chopper guides vols 1, 2, and 3 each about 150 pages, mix of products and tech, vol 1 is the best..
these are black and white, copies. i can do them with clear cover and comb bound or just double sided prints you can put in a 3 ring binder.
I used to produce these and sell at swaps,shows and in my old shop. used to get a lot of money for them on feebay, especailly the japanese would pay crazy money for this stuff. prices vary based on what you want and number of pages. I dont get the steep discounts i used to for copys. but it would be far less than what i normally charge for them. I was thinking of making a small run of them anyway. pm me for details.
theres a bunch of local hipsters running chopped and cafe iron heads around here some of them know what they are doing, others not so much but just digging on the retro scene
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might be of intrest .
slightly bigger here .
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michael_be ... otostream/
and check this one out ,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michael_be ... otostream/
theres a few nuts & bolts in there . you CANT get a Vin flat in the frame , like that .
a Bolt Up . :shock: :?:
slightly bigger here .
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michael_be ... otostream/
and check this one out ,
http://www.flickr.com/photos/michael_be ... otostream/
theres a few nuts & bolts in there . you CANT get a Vin flat in the frame , like that .
a Bolt Up . :shock: :?:
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Bernhard said:
Looks like it hasn't.
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Matt Spencer said:
That's well set up. He changes gear with his hand and follows the front mudguard at night.
