What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank?

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

Aka: Denatured alcohol which is drinking ethanol that's been poisoned so don't need a Revenuer's tax stamp to sell to public. Ups the alcohol content which leans the fuel mix and increases ethanol's corrosive ways. HEET is the well known brand of this. Adding more alcohol is temporary fix to use up soon or just collects more water. Acetone will also take water out but is more dissolving than alcohols but makes a great fuel additive otherwise as increases vaporization and burns fast itself. To get the booze out of the gas ya just add water and shake to separate, which ain't what we want in our gas tanks. Gas stabilizers are more like anti-oxidants though may contains some alcohol to keep some moisture suspended/dissolved. Diesel fuel stabilizers are mostly anti-algae poisons.

With really crusty rusty boat tanks we'd put lye in and let boil awhile. Here's lots more ways to get the rust gone.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... M6KjmSsaVE

This is what I'm pickling Peel OIF frame with so it don't rust right out from under me, can't take chance of coating flaking off.
chem-prime-the-other-green-pickle-juice-t6926.html

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

My tank is pretty good but I will repaint is the next year or so
There are sealers & there are sealers. IMO after thorough investigation prior to respray the tank will be sealed with a quality sealer that sets like an impervious epoxy like on older tanks I have seen that have had the treatment. Even fixing pin holes. Cheap or incorrectly applied sealers are a problem
As for an Indian tank if you don't use a good sealer then good luck with that. They are cheap and there is a reason for that
Also ethanol is still an option and as long as it is I will continue to use only high octane fuel

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

comnoz said:

Metholated Spirits or gasahol works very well to absorb water from the fuel in a tank. [including the storage tanks]


The best thing I have used so far when storing a bike is a couple small desiccant packs hung from a wire inside a drained fuel tank. It soaks up the humidity and keeps the inside of the tank shiny like new. Just make sure all the fuel is drained first or the small amount of fuel left in the bottom will go bad and turn to gum in about 6 months. Jim

Click to expand...

Thanks for that info, in particular, "when storing a bike is a couple small desiccant packs hung from a wire inside a drained fuel tank." So really simple and an easy do.. I guess if i was a once a month rider or a daily rider the issue of condensation would not be a problem.. "long term" storage eg months plus then those absorbant packs would work a treat..

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

The last tank liner failure I had was on a tank that had been Caswell sealed for around 10 years and had been great. It was a new and well prepped tank when sealed.

When it failed it was sudden and made a hell of a mess -as it was a 60 gallon tank in my truck. I had a big tank full of floating slime and a thoroughly plugged up fuel injection system setting along side the interstate.

Whether if failed because of something in the fuel or just because of the age of the sealant I do not know -but I do know it will never happen to me again.

The people at Caswell were unresponsive as to finding out why it failed. Jim

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

comnoz said:

The last tank liner failure I had was on a tank that had been Caswell sealed for around 10 years and had been great. It was a new and well prepped tank when sealed.

When it failed it was sudden and made a hell of a mess -as it was a 60 gallon tank in my truck. I had a big tank full of floating slime and a thoroughly plugged up fuel injection system setting along side the interstate.

Whether if failed because of something in the fuel or just because of the age of the sealant I do not know -but I do know it will never happen to me again.

The people at Caswell were unresponsive as to finding out why it failed. Jim

Click to expand...

After 10 years it failed!!! :roll: :roll: == fuel filters!!

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

There are a lot of motor vehicles out there that are 50 to 100 years old that have gotten along fine with bare metal fuel tanks.

If someone wants to spend their life screwing around with a 40 year old fiberglass tank trying to get it to hold the latest fuels that is their choice, it will never be mine. Put a steel bladder in it.

Steel and aluminum don't need to be protected from regular use of pump gas. Even 50 years ago letting a bike sit unused with fuel in it's tank was a mistake, so nothing has changed except for the misinformation and scams out there for the gullible to eat up. And those scams are the various businessmen trying to take your money in exchange for bottles of goo.

IF you have an old metal tank, then don't put a lot of money into it until it has been on a running bike for a while and proves itself. If it gets a pinhole or a crack here and there over a riding season then just grind it out and weld it up. In a little bit of time you will work all the bugs out of it and then you can put some money into it's finish if you feel the need.

The paint on my Norton tank is with cheap $5 a can engine enamel that is fuel and oil resistant, working fine. If I get a leak in the tank I can weld it up and touch up the paint and have it back on the bike in 24 hours. The fuel tap on it is an original old push-pull job that for some reason works fine and has no sealer at all on it's threads.

If you think that using some sort of glue in a metal fuel tank is going to be easier than learning how to weld up small holes in metal, in the long run you will lose the bet.

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

olChris said:

comnoz said:

The last tank liner failure I had was on a tank that had been Caswell sealed for around 10 years and had been great. It was a new and well prepped tank when sealed.

When it failed it was sudden and made a hell of a mess -as it was a 60 gallon tank in my truck. I had a big tank full of floating slime and a thoroughly plugged up fuel injection system setting along side the interstate.

Whether if failed because of something in the fuel or just because of the age of the sealant I do not know -but I do know it will never happen to me again.

The people at Caswell were unresponsive as to finding out why it failed. Jim

Click to expand...

After 10 years it failed!!! :roll: :roll: == fuel filters!!

Click to expand...

Yeah, 10 years, that means it would have failed 3 times now in my Norton streetbike. And yes I had fuel filters. Large spin on fuel filters. I had to buy a case of them to get home and a colander to scoop the slime out of the fuel tank enough to keep it from plugging the 1/2 inch diameter fuel line.

Meanwhile the Norton tank has had a light film of rust for the past 30 years and never given me any problem. So if you are only going to be a short-timer with your Norton, go ahead and coat it. You can let the next owner worry about it.

Do it right -weld it. Jim

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

I must be the only one who uses the Hirsch product cause I am the only one who brings it up. It is a simple process (relatively speaking) and wears like iron. I have used it in both fibergalss and metal tanks successfully. It is not a liner but a coating.

My steps were to slosh the tank with industrial drain cleaner (phosphoric acid based). This etches the surface and removes surface rust, This is done quickly, then rinced thoroughly and dried completely. Then rince with acetone (laquer thinner may do well also) and dry completely. Then apply the Hersch product as directed.

One pint will do 3 or 4 tanks.
http://www.hirschauto.com/prodinfo.asp? ... ation=PINT

With any and all products, protect your paint.

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

I have not used Hirsch but I have used Randolfs which is supposedly the same product. It didn't start coming loose in the tank but the pinholes I was attempting to seal started seeping again after a few months. Then I had to figure out how to get it out of there before I could weld it. Jim

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

Jim knows what he is talking about. Pay attention. I've had a thin coating of rust in my interstate tank since it was new. No issues. Keep gas in the tank. Use inline filters. POR 15 is the best sealer(my opinion) but only 6 yrs old so can't attest to its longevity. I guess the general consensus is if you have a fiberglass tank replace it with steel. Why would you NOT weld up a leaky steel tank?

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

donmeek said:

Jim knows what he is talking about. Pay attention. I've had a thin coating of rust in my interstate tank since it was new. No issues. Keep gas in the tank. Use inline filters. POR 15 is the best sealer(my opinion) but only 6 yrs old so can't attest to its longevity. I guess the general consensus is if you have a fiberglass tank replace it with steel. Why would you NOT weld up a leaky steel tank?

Click to expand...

OK....if you have a thin coating of rust, why not use Hobot's pickling juice to stabilize it? Jim has also reported a rust patina is normal.

Jim? Would you pickle it?
Hobot?

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

I just use metal prep [phosphoric acid]. Leaks will show up then if there are thin spots.
I braze them with 56% silver solder. It slowly turns a rusty brown after that but doesn't seem to build up any scale. Of coarse I am in a very dry climate and ride year round except for a couple months in the winter. Jim

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

Beach said:

Evaporust will neutralize the bits of rust, then rinse out and coat inside of tank with some kind of light oil...

Click to expand...

+1 for me.
That evaporust is great stuff, very safe and can be used over and over. I keep a 5 gallon bucket of the stuff (with a lid) and throw anything rusty into the bucket before painting, prepping etc. Lasts a long time!

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

Evaporust is muratic acid. It works similar to phosphoric acid. It is less toxic and a little slower. Jim

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

Hmm. Evaporust is muratic acid? It sure doesn't smell or act like muratic acid. I have used plenty of the muratic stuff and it's pretty brutal, dissolves steel in fact. Muratic is really just watered down hydrochloric acid in my book, commonly used to wash excess concrete off bricks. No one has mentioned molasses here lately. Phosphoric is nice though. The guy that did my frame used a phosphoric bath before powder coating, apparently it's specified by the DOD to prevent rust, according to him.

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

DogT said:

Hmm. Evaporust is muratic acid? It sure doesn't smell or act like muratic acid. I have used plenty of the muratic stuff and it's pretty brutal, dissolves steel in fact. Muratic is really just watered down hydrochloric acid in my book, commonly used to wash excess concrete off bricks. No one has mentioned molasses here lately. Phosphoric is nice though. The guy that did my frame used a phosphoric bath before powder coating, apparently it's specified by the DOD to prevent rust, according to him.

Click to expand...

According to the people at the local hardware store the active ingredient is muratic acid. I don't know what else is in it besides something to make it smell better...

Even evaporust will dissolve steel eventually. If you don't shake it regularly in a tank it will cause a ledge at the level where it contacts air.

Re: What's the best way to internally finish a new bare tank

About anything besides just surface pickling agents like the phos acid or organic acetic acid based solutions will dissolve most metals in time. Strong bases like the famous lye boils - Na hydroxide or strong inorganic acids like Nitric or HCl [muratic] acid much be watched-timed. The "strength" is this case is not the dilution factor, but the electromotive potential developed to steal or donate electrons from the metal atoms. So even diluted HCl will eventually dissolve a tank but of course slows process down to stop in time. Organic-weak acids allow parts to be left long term to store and stay rust free till needed. Chelating agents also work similar to the weak organic acid rust removers/converters. Electrolysis can also do this but in tanks and some weird shaped objects the currents may not reach all surfaces but pick a few areas of least resistance to concentrate on. Thickness of coat and surface prep adhesion are as important as the resistance to solvents in coating a tank. Best wishes on lasting recovery as seems a crap shoot for everyone.