What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...

Stephen_Spencer said:
Because they have told us so on multiple occasions Voodooo, through several sources, that is the plan. They are also briefing it on factory open days. No reason to disbelieve this information.

It could be a smoke screen for the introduction of multiple EV’s only - but to match their, ‘something for everyone - every pocket statements’? The lower end of that reference, in the EV world, would have to be a scooter right? I just don’t see that occurring. They would also be slammed for deceiving the biking world.

Let’s not forget they’ve just spent a lot of money re-engineering some fire breathing sports bikes (and the 961 ;) ). They are not afraid of burning a bit of petrol in the name of profit.

Are the motorcycle public ready for Norton to go directly to EV’s. IMO no. Is Norton ready to introduce a range of EV’s currently, given the 30 month advertised timeframe?

I’m as sure that elements of Norton‘s staff are busy as you are sure that they are not. We are speculating mate.

After-note. I wish I was an insider, then I could wander down to the spares department and stick a rocket up their collective asses!
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Norton (and any brand, to be clear) EV's will be a small scale of the Harley Davidson Live Wire. Which has failed miserably.
 
CR961 said:
It´s interesting you say this since you were also pointing out that Norton is doing this due to regulation (aka policy coming politics). If you ride a motorcycle and if it´s a Norton, we should be on the same page. People like me are surely not the ones to be pushing the EV nonsense, so how else to describe it? Are you going to be fine with non-riding bureaucrats telling you your days are over? And if the company is using it´s diminishing energy and resources to develop something while not having it´s heart behind it, nothing good can come out (let alone solve the current parts issues, etc). Oh, I forgot that the media are now forever parroting that the ICE/EV discussion is already concluded, and that we just better shut up and deal with it.

Am I aware that some people are currently programmed by society and media to tell me that I am crossing some imaginery correctness line by stating the obvious truth (note that the truth is less and less acceptable)? Yes, I am aware. But it is worth my time to set an example and perhaps sway another wandering soul to stand behind their beliefs at a future decision point.
Please do not give up your freedom lightly. All I have to say.
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Yep, that’s the stuff I’m suggesting we might wanna leave alone🙃! ‘My bad’ as the kids say, for mentioning the dreaded ‘R’ word!
 
BritTwit said:
V2D2,
Dr Bob indicated that Norton will be introducing two new twin models around this time next year.
Seems like a commitment, no?
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When exactly did dr bob say this and do you have this comment he made?

At this point, I don’t believe anything Norton says. When they show it in the flesh, I’ll believe it. When it’s available for the public to purchase, then I’ll believe it’s a reality.

Where’s the V4CR?
2 years and it’s still not available for purchase.
 
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CR961 said:
It´s interesting you say this since you were also pointing out that Norton is doing this due to regulation (aka policy coming politics). If you ride a motorcycle and if it´s a Norton, we should be on the same page. People like me are surely not the ones to be pushing the EV nonsense, so how else to describe it? Are you going to be fine with non-riding bureaucrats telling you your days are over? And if the company is using it´s diminishing energy and resources to develop something while not having it´s heart behind it, nothing good can come out (let alone solve the current parts issues, etc). Oh, I forgot that the media are now forever parroting that the ICE/EV discussion is already concluded, and that we just better shut up and deal with it.

Am I aware that some people are currently programmed by society and media to tell me that I am crossing some imaginery correctness line by stating the obvious truth (note that the truth is less and less acceptable)? Yes, I am aware. But it is worth my time to set an example and perhaps sway another wandering soul to stand behind their beliefs at a future decision point.
Please do not give up your freedom lightly. All I have to say.
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Well said.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
I bought a very nice wine red pepe jeans Norton hoodie the other day from a clothing outlet on ebay.....£20 delivered. I keep an eye on the Donington Norton clothing coming up for sale, but its not very often that size large comes available. I definitely prefer the Donington Norton logo....doesn't have hints of Triumph in the font like the brummy one.
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I have bought a fine selection of mainly tee shirts from that Pepe range: when they were first available, and some via ebay old stock. Good quality. Also found a brown leather jacket ( casual) on ebay last year, also vg.
 
Interesting interview with Gladwell, less than a year ago - I’d never read it before.

From other reading, I have a suspicion forming. I’m not sure that we have seen the last of the Atlas and Ranger!

bikereview.com.au

Interview: Christian Gladwell Chats About The Future Of Norton Motorcycles

Following the Norton brand's revival under TVS. Cathcart sat down with the CCO, Christian Gladwell, to chat about the brands future...
bikereview.com.au bikereview.com.au

2030 now 2035 I believe - it may well slip further.

IMG_9002.jpeg
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Interesting interview with Gladwell, less than a year ago - I’d never read it before.

From other reading, I have a suspicion forming. I’m not sure that we have seen the last of the Atlas and Ranger!

bikereview.com.au

Interview: Christian Gladwell Chats About The Future Of Norton Motorcycles

Following the Norton brand's revival under TVS. Cathcart sat down with the CCO, Christian Gladwell, to chat about the brands future...
bikereview.com.au bikereview.com.au

2030 now 2035 I believe - it may well slip further.

View attachment 110514
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This stinks of carbon credits you will have to pay for your once-a-week Sunday morning. Orwell anyone?
Whenever I hear "urban mobility", my hairs stand up. "Urban exploration" is a new one.
This kind of newspeak about personal mobility and companies now being mobility providers is just depressing. We are not shouting enough, the manufacturers are not shouting enough.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Interesting interview with Gladwell, less than a year ago - I’d never read it before.

From other reading, I have a suspicion forming. I’m not sure that we have seen the last of the Atlas and Ranger!

bikereview.com.au

Interview: Christian Gladwell Chats About The Future Of Norton Motorcycles

Following the Norton brand's revival under TVS. Cathcart sat down with the CCO, Christian Gladwell, to chat about the brands future...
bikereview.com.au bikereview.com.au

2030 now 2035 I believe - it may well slip further.

View attachment 110514
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He also said he'd been riding motorcycles for 20yrs, then adding a dig at his apparently owned Donington 961, before finishing with he's ordered a Solihull 961 now. Hmm. I can only assume most of those riding years were done on an AR50 with L plates, seeing as you can find a picture of him online passing his motorcycle test in 2014 🤔🤣

I've not heard anything about him no longer being with the company though, his LinkedIn profile still states Norton CCO 🤷🏻‍♂️ Unless he was very recently let go and is still in the ice cream eating in just his pants with the curtains drawn stage, not yet getting around to updating profiles etc.

He was the only person at Norton to make contact with me though, wanting to meet up....over a year ago now. I thought great, this is awesome, as I wanted to build a working relationship with the brand...but then correspondence fell silent.
 

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Interesting snippets from Gladwell interviews. This one from Jan this year.

Talks more about ICE bikes here, in fact hardly mentions EV’s. Additions to the V4 family and a family of Commando’s based on a new Euro 6 twin (water cooled obviously)?:oops:

Further quotes elsewhere about reaching 50-50 parity in their range between ICE and EV. So clearly plans to continue building ICE machines.

What's happening at Norton? Sale to TVS, massive investment, new bikes...
 
Good lord.
You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink it.

I don’t see why or how someone believes that Norton is going to spend and waste even more money on a ICE, when they took an agreement and investment into EV.

Just because you want something doesn’t mean you’ll get it. No matter how much you want it.

In 3 years now, they’ve sold how many bikes?
In 3 years now, they’ve spent how much money and made no profits at all?
In 3 years we seen no new models of bikes designed by TVS Norton.
They have the Commando 961, the V4SV, both of which they hardly sold either of.
They also have the V4CR, why hasn’t that been offered to purchase yet?

How can anyone believe that they will waste even more money and deeper in debt making a new ICE bike in which they can hardly sell for just a few more remaining years?

I mean, everything else they’ve done makes zero sense, so I suppose wasting more money, time, and effort is something they’re good at doing.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Interesting snippets from Gladwell interviews. This one from Jan this year.

Talks more about ICE bikes here, in fact hardly mentions EV’s. Additions to the V4 family and a family of Commando’s based on a new Euro 6 twin (water cooled obviously)?:oops:

Further quotes elsewhere about reaching 50-50 parity in their range between ICE and EV. So clearly plans to continue building ICE machines.

View attachment 110518
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Stephen, thank you for the article. Interesting read, but nearing the end of ´23 and knocking on ´24, we can question the progress. Compare the upbeat nature of his statements with the stark reality of actually dealing with them. As I mentioned before, there is some serious (and unknown to us) headwind working against the personnel at Norton, either of their own making or blowing in from the outside. In another year or maybe much sooner, we will have a better idea.
Consider that our own findings and opinions in this direction have only been put into words over the past few weeks for the most part.
 
CR961 said:
Stephen, thank you for the article. Interesting read, but nearing the end of ´23 and knocking on ´24, we can question the progress. Compare the upbeat nature of his statements with the stark reality of actually dealing with them. As I mentioned before, there is some serious (and unknown to us) headwind working against the personnel at Norton, either of their own making or blowing in from the outside. In another year or maybe much sooner, we will have a better idea.
Consider that our own findings and opinions in this direction have only been put into words over the past few weeks for the most part.
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Electric bikes aren’t going to cut it no matter who makes them..Even the big boss of KTM has admitted as much..Commuter bikes maybe but the big problem is the size of the battery.
 
MAK said:
Electric bikes aren’t going to cut it no matter who makes them..Even the big boss of KTM has admitted as much..Commuter bikes maybe but the big problem is the size of the battery.
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They don’t have much of a choice for very long.

Makes me laugh when people talk about battery sizes. As if batteries havent evolved in just the last few years.
 
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MAK said:
Electric bikes aren’t going to cut it no matter who makes them..Even the big boss of KTM has admitted as much..Commuter bikes maybe but the big problem is the size of the battery.
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Yes, I read the big interview with Pierer. It was refreshingly honest and open in the kind of way only a CEO/owner can be, including his cooperation and competition with Triumph, the Chinese, MV. Regarding problematic EVs, what many thinkers know to be a fact is still playing a game of catch in the public domain and the law with so-called green policies, i.e. what will give in first. Great harm and even greater hypocrisy is being committed already for some time, but it is bewildering that we are still not at the top of this peculiar curve.
 
You can call the Harley livewire a poor seller, but for a boomer dominated brand like Harley, they pulled off a pretty amazing product.
It looks good, performs good and they’re ahead of the game. Now if they’d just make a real sports bike.
 
Voodooo said:
You can call the Harley livewire a poor seller, but for a boomer dominated brand like Harley, they pulled off a pretty amazing product.
It looks good, performs good and they’re ahead of the game. Now if they’d just make a real sports bike.
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Ain't calling it anything. The numbers don't lie. The MoCo guzzled give-away-dollars like everyone else.
Once our tax dollars are gone, so will be the bike.
 
concours said:
Ain't calling it anything. The numbers don't lie. The MoCo guzzled give-away-dollars like everyone else.
Once our tax dollars are gone, so will be the bike.
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The livewire has been out since 2019. Going on 5 years. Of course the sale numbers are low, when compared to other ice bikes.
Ev isn’t going away.
 
CR961 said:
Stephen, thank you for the article. Interesting read, but nearing the end of ´23 and knocking on ´24, we can question the progress. Compare the upbeat nature of his statements with the stark reality of actually dealing with them. As I mentioned before, there is some serious (and unknown to us) headwind working against the personnel at Norton, either of their own making or blowing in from the outside. In another year or maybe much sooner, we will have a better idea.
Consider that our own findings and opinions in this direction have only been put into words over the past few weeks for the most part.
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This commentary ref Norton Birmingham has been such for a long time CR, you’ve just only been here for the past few weeks🤣!
 
Fast Eddie said:
Which is why I never disbelieved his earlier statement that the Atlas range was axed as it did not fit their focus on EVs !

I think the real reason behind that is they realised that they’d actually got nuthin’ except 2-3 hand built bikes and a load of media hype. No tooling, no supply chain, not even completed design work etc. In other words, Garner played them big style !!

And I can tell you that his claim of an offer to transfer deposits over to a new 961 is simply untrue. I asked this specifically and was told the only thing they could offer was a deposit transfer to a new V4. My deposit was only £500 so wouldn't even scratch the surface of a buying decision on a V4 !!
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The more I read FE, the more I think it’s likely that one of the principle reasons for dropping the Atlas range was that it did not fit into their premium/luxury vision - whatever we may think of that. Comments like, ‘we are not in the market of making a parallel twin…. at 12K’ is a bit of a clue for me.

Garner played everybody he did business with. Not sure that includes TVS though, as they were not in the picture at the time; don’t suppose the Atlas figured much in their decision to purchase Norton.
 
Voodooo said:
Good lord.
You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink it.

I don’t see why or how someone believes that Norton is going to spend and waste even more money on a ICE, when they took an agreement and investment into EV.

Just because you want something doesn’t mean you’ll get it. No matter how much you want it.

In 3 years now, they’ve sold how many bikes?
In 3 years now, they’ve spent how much money and made no profits at all?
In 3 years we seen no new models of bikes designed by TVS Norton.
They have the Commando 961, the V4SV, both of which they hardly sold either of.
They also have the V4CR, why hasn’t that been offered to purchase yet?

How can anyone believe that they will waste even more money and deeper in debt making a new ICE bike in which they can hardly sell for just a few more remaining years?

I mean, everything else they’ve done makes zero sense, so I suppose wasting more money, time, and effort is something they’re good at doing.
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No thanks Voodooo - breaking the usual ‘cycle’ on this one! 😆
 
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