Wanted; Sense of humour for NOC EC.

I've had several messages deleted from the NOC forum for a) citicism of Stuart Garner and his motorcycle company, b) criticism of the NOC executive commitee and c) taking the piss in general.

Latest deletion was on the subject of the rumoured Norton plank. Allegedly the plank was used for propping up a machine tool to ensure it produced parts within tolerance.
My witty reply was something along the line of;
"I was told by a friend of mine, who is partially deaf, that he was told by a mate down the pub, who was drunk, that he overheard a bloke down the pub say, ' the plank was recently on ebay and has gone to a museum. Apparently you can now buy genuine norvil planks'.

Is it me or have the EC lost it's sense of humour? I personally like and get on with Tim, the chairman, but the EC as a whole seems to have lost the plot and turned into a bunch of control freaks. It's been suggested by other members that I should leave the club, what a cheerful bunch. I have no intention of doing this, as my main reason for joining is to attend the rallies. Which are attended by sound, motorcycle enthusiasts in general. We usually talk bikes and have a beer, just as motorcyclists do the world over.

P.S The Gerbing gloves are absolutely brilliant. Going to get a pair of socks asap.

I do not get involved but can see from a far they seem to take themselves far too seriously. The new Nortons may be fine bikes and the service good from accounts but the business ethics of Gardner are not mine but the Committee seem to protect him, not sure if they are afraid of being sued or made a conscious decision to support him as he is building Nortons. Well blindly following that logic got plenty of people burnt courtesy of Philippe Le Roux so caution is advised IMHO.

kommando said:

I do not get involved but can see from a far they seem to take themselves far too seriously. The new Nortons may be fine bikes and the service good from accounts but the business ethics of Gardner are not mine but the Committee seem to protect him, not sure if they are afraid of being sued or made a conscious decision to support him as he is building Nortons. Well blindly following that logic got plenty of people burnt courtesy of Philippe Le Roux so caution is advised IMHO.

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My only interaction with the club is forum postings and rallies. Through correspondence, I know the EC will not tolerate criticism of Stuart Garner. You can draw your own conclusions why. Being sued has been suggested before, but I think it's bollocks, just an excuse for censorship of messages. I get the impression Stuart Garner gets more from the club than the club gets from Stuart Garner. Noticed he hasn't bothered putting any advertising revenue the clubs way with an ad. in Roadholder. Not that the club is short of funds. £150,000 I think at the last count. But that's another subject......

Al-otment said:

I
Which are attended by sound, motorcycle enthusiasts in general. We usually talk bikes and have a beer, just as motorcyclists do the world over.

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Isn't that how most clubs start due to good intentions.
Plenty of folks persona's or sense of self importance inflate when they communicate from behind a faceless PC.

Best to simply enjoy doing what you like doing and that is actually riding motorcycles for that or adventure.

Time Warp said:

Al-otment said:

I
Which are attended by sound, motorcycle enthusiasts in general. We usually talk bikes and have a beer, just as motorcyclists do the world over.

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Isn't that how most clubs start due to good intentions.
Plenty of folks persona's or sense of self importance inflate when they communicate from behind a faceless PC.

Best to simply enjoy doing what you like doing and that is actually riding motorcycles for that or adventure.

Click to expand...

+1 Time Warp. Clubs are for followers who turn into fuddy duddy's, lol.

Until a few years ago I had never joined any clubs. I was squeezed into joining one when a riding mate in the Vincent club was killed on his Black Shadow while we were riding home from California eight years ago. He was Section Organizer for the local group here and I was asked to take over the position, which I did for four years.
It turned out to be a very good thing, I have ended up doing so much more Riding and Socializing than I ever would have as a nonmember. Sort of dragged me out of my shell.
And the little Rider's handbook is a Godsend, in it you have the names of fellow club members from all over the world. They will provide every kind of emergency assistance from lodgings, to parts supply and machineshop work. It makes it possible to ride a seventy year old motorcycle on big trips in foreign countries with a good safety net under you in case of breakdown. I have never needed to use it, but it gives you the security needed to set off on a three or four thousand mile trip with a carefree attitude.
I dont belong to any Norton club, but I imagine they have a similar listing?

I have seen a small amount of the empire building super serious types who use the club as a way to exercise control over others. That gets old in a hurry and isnt tolerated by the local group, tho the big Mother club in England has a few bolt-up- the- ass, self important characters.
We generally try to ignore their bad behaviour and let them do tons of boring organizing work. Martrydom seems to be a common trait in this type of personality, might as well take advantage of that!

Glen

Shouldn't that post go in the "wanted" section :wink:

Jean

PS Life is short, laughter is the best medicine.

worntorn said:

I have seen a small amount of the empire building super serious types who use the club as a way to exercise control over others. That gets old in a hurry and isnt tolerated by the local group, tho the big Mother club in England has a few bolt-up- the- ass, self important characters.
We generally try to ignore their bad behaviour and let them do tons of boring organizing work. Martrydom seems to be a common trait in this type of personality, might as well take advantage of that!

Glen

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I think it's an unfortunate human trait, that positions of responsibility and authority, typically do not attract the most capable people. It's the control and perceived power which is the attraction. Very sad, is it just an English/British thing? I can think of plenty of examples through out the U.K at all levels of government and businesses. The NOC EC being no exception. Very amusing though. I find it hard not to react when I read or hear bullshit, so I'll continue to keep the 'web meister' as he calls himself, busy.

Here's an example of the EC in action. Next years NOC International Rally is to be held in Germany. Germany is a lovely country, as are it's people. The topography ranges from the Alps in the South through to rolling hills, country side, forests, rivers, gorges etc perfect motorcycling country, and then onto the vast expanses of the North European plain. Guess where the rally's being held. Bremen, flatlandsville. Getting from the UK would involve a journey of approx 400 miles of dead straight, flat roads. And then the return journey of the same. I'll being doing something else that week.

All clubs have a range of people from all walks of life, its what makes clubs great.

Having given talks to several Norton Owners clubs I am always impressed by the treatment
I am given and the enthuiasm for the Norton brand.

As for the "New" Norton I was involved at day 1 when MCT (a race engine company) was given the
task of developing an engine from a "box of bits". I believe the relationship was not a happy one
and I was asked to supply Norton. I was given firm orders for over £2000 of chains but Norton had
them in drips and drabs. After a heated discussion with them over payments I ceased trading with
them.

I do not speak for other suppliers but having helped them I was not impressed with the attitude
shown by them.

Andy

I heard it from a friend whos second cousins aunts husband , who has an uncle whos neigbours daughter heard it from the milkman .
With all those people believing it , how could it possably be wrong .

andychain said:

All clubs have a range of people from all walks of life, its what makes clubs great.

Having given talks to several Norton Owners clubs I am always impressed by the treatment
I am given and the enthuiasm for the Norton brand.

As for the "New" Norton I was involved at day 1 when MCT (a race engine company) was given the
task of developing an engine from a "box of bits". I believe the relationship was not a happy one
and I was asked to supply Norton. I was given firm orders for over £2000 of chains but Norton had
them in drips and drabs. After a heated discussion with them over payments I ceased trading with
them.

I do not speak for other suppliers but having helped them I was not impressed with the attitude
shown by them.

Andy

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There's some very good branches out there, Northumbria, Tay Valley to name two. My criticism is of the EC.

Members, who had paid deposits and got fed up of waiting for a bike to appear, had the audacity to post messages criticising S.Garner, which were then removed because it was, quote, "....in the best interests of the club and our members". Should that have been member? Not sure if Garner's joined up. In the eyes of the EC he can do no wrong. Next years sycophants ball, sorry AGM, is at Garners new pad in Donnington. I'll be elsewhere.

I may be wrong but Triumph seem to have made a good job of rising from the ashes.

They have invested very heavily not only in the product but also racing which must have had
a possitive effect on sales.

My understanding on the Norton setup appears to be different almost as if it was or is, run by
adventure capitalists or worst dreamers.

I was also involved with the rebirth of Metisse and I get the impression that folks dont actually
know what is involved in producing a main stream motorcycle for todays market. Being involved
with the Laverda fraternity, a great bunch of people, I know that every now and again there is the
threat of a "new" Laverda. Great in principal but difficult in reality.

Norton seem to caught between the two. I wish them luck but unfortunately in todays climate
the desire to relaunch a brand needs to relate to a little more than sentimentality. Having said that
I wish them well but there signs are not good if we speak honestly.

Hoping not to sued but dont give a toss if I am.

Andy

andychain said:

I may be wrong but Triumph seem to have made a good job of rising from the ashes.

They have invested very heavily not only in the product but also racing which must have had
a possitive effect on sales.

My understanding on the Norton setup appears to be different almost as if it was or is, run by
adventure capitalists or worst dreamers.

I was also involved with the rebirth of Metisse and I get the impression that folks dont actually
know what is involved in producing a main stream motorcycle for todays market. Being involved
with the Laverda fraternity, a great bunch of people, I know that every now and again there is the
threat of a "new" Laverda. Great in principal but difficult in reality.

Norton seem to caught between the two. I wish them luck but unfortunately in todays climate
the desire to relaunch a brand needs to relate to a little more than sentimentality. Having said that
I wish them well but there signs are not good if we speak honestly.

Hoping not to sued but dont give a toss if I am.

Andy

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It's advantageous for manufacturers to resurrect brands because of the history customers will associate with that brand, even though the only link between the new and old company is the name. Hence John Bloor with Triumph, Garner with Norton etc. What surprises me is some peoples eagerness to accept the products as the real deal. Ok they have Norton on the tank for example, but Garner also produced a pram with Norton on the side. I just accept things for what they are.

Garner has gone from fireworks and prams to motorcycles. All I see is an entrepreneur who is out to make money any which way he can. He's formed links with the NOC purely because he can directly target what he see's as 4,000 potential customers, who the EC is more than happy to keep informed about the wonderful things Norton Motorcycles (UK) Ltd is doing, and what a great guy Mr Garner is. Don't worry Andy, you won't get sued.

Al-otment said:

andychain said:

I may be wrong but Triumph seem to have made a good job of rising from the ashes.
Andy

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It's advantageous for manufacturers to resurrect brands because of the history customers will associate with that brand, even though the only link between the new and old company is the name. Hence John Bloor with Triumph,

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If Triumph as we know it had released the current Bonneville in 1991 would the story be the same ?
What John Bloor seems to have done is get the timing right in general for over 20 years now.

Can Norton do the same with a bike that only has a timing cover resemblance to that of a Commando do the same.
We all know the answer to that and good luck to them.
If its and buts were candy we would all have a merry Christmas.

Funny Norton Owners clubs are mentioned,the local gathering here has an option to contact them via email as I did on two occasions asking for some help as far as reliable sources for crankshaft grinding.
Lucky I didn't hold my breath waiting for a reply because it never came. :roll:

If youve noticed, the NOC folks have latterly all been making their email contacts invisible.
Being all volunteers, apparently they were all being run ragged with a deluge of, mostly, unanswerable enquiries. ?
How would they know who to recommend for anything outside of the UK ??

You may also recall that the NSW NOC separated from the UK club quite some years ago, over a difference of opinion.
Never to be reunited... ?

It is pretty hard in any organisation to please all of the people anywhere near all of the time. Perhaps some of those who can see room for improvement might like to stand for the EC and attempt improvement from within? Says he who belongs to the NOC but lives 12,000 miles away so won't be standing.

The club voting system is totally undemocratic. If you can't get to the AGM you can't vote. I've suggested alternatives but received negative comments. It would be like banging your head against a wall attempting to improve the club as it stands. The EC are voted in by approx 2.5% of club membership who also vote on issues brought forward at the AGM. This is how 'club' policies are decided.

Just read this thread and I think I got the gist of it!

Al-otment said:

The club voting system is totally undemocratic. If you can't get to the AGM you can't vote. I've suggested alternatives but received negative comments. It would be like banging your head against a wall attempting to improve the club as it stands. The EC are voted in by approx 2.5% of club membership who also vote on issues brought forward at the AGM. This is how 'club' policies are decided.

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Isn't this how most democratic governments get voted in, by the apathy of the electorate? Our local council got voted in by 8% of the voters :roll:

A bike club is way down on my priorities for taking on an active and political position, I've been on a bike club committee, and I would think ten times before I took on a role like that again! It's a thankless job. And irrespective of whether Garner is on the committee or a member or whatever, without people like him Norton would not exist.
They did make a mistake by making a brand new bike look forty years old though! why couldn't they design a modern looking bike that might have a much broader appeal.

It costs £19.50 to join NOC, got the application form somewhere, not filled it in yet though, still waiting to be convinced of the benefits.

CB

Cheshire Bloke

One of the benefits of the club is that some day you may well get a fat grey haired old
guy boring the pants off you about chain.

Only trying to lighten the mood.

As for the "new" Norton, am I right in assuming, from discussions at shows, that they
are only built to order with no stocks being held. I was also told that dealers have to pay
up front for any stock. If these are correct and I hope I have been told wrong, then it is
little wonder there are few on the road. I think somewhere along this thread I also mentioned
venture capitalists which was again mentioned by another contributor.

The court papers have yet to arrive.

It is good the forum although these frank exchanges of views but I also wonder why Norton
has not responded..........or perhaps they have!!!!!!

Andy

Cheshire bloke said:

Just read this thread and I think I got the gist of it!

Al-otment said:

The club voting system is totally undemocratic. If you can't get to the AGM you can't vote. I've suggested alternatives but received negative comments. It would be like banging your head against a wall attempting to improve the club as it stands. The EC are voted in by approx 2.5% of club membership who also vote on issues brought forward at the AGM. This is how 'club' policies are decided.

Click to expand...

Isn't this how most democratic governments get voted in, by the apathy of the electorate? Our local council got voted in by 8% of the voters.

It costs £19.50 to join NOC, got the application form somewhere, not filled it in yet though, still waiting to be convinced of the benefits.

CB

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The point about democracy is government by the whole (or majority) of the people through representatives. With only 2.5% of members voting I wouldn't call it democratic. To attend the AGM and vote, members are looking at round trips of between 50 to 800 miles. You can understand why attendance is relatively low. At least with council/government elections it's normally just a few minutes walk or drive.

Benefits of membership for myself include the forum, classified ads, rallies. Some branch rallies are good, but many rallies appear to be run as profit making exercises for the branch concerned. Not in the spirit of a club. I estimate rally attendance, at the International, is about 7% of club membership, much lower for other rallies. Judging by articles in Roadholder, having a club stand at shows and half a dozen bikes on display is a popular activity. Can't figure that one out. I could argue the EC benefit the most. New laptops, travelling expenses to EC meetings, sit down meals in hotels - who knows what other benefits, or am I just being cynical? Was on the verge of not renewing my membership but I'll give it another year.