valve adjustment question

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On a road bike, if you have clearance and it is not rattling , I wouldn't worry too much. If you are racing the tappet clearances can make a difference . They affect the cam timing. Some road bikes have cams with quietening ramps which have much bigger clearances specified by the manufacturer. These often run harder with the normal tight clearances.
 
This is an interesting thread with everyone trying to explain a relatively simple procedure to someone who sounds like they have never done it before. Pictures are worth a thousand words. If you were standing there you could demonstrate in about 2 seconds but trying to describe it in words requires so much verbage and when your through it just seems frustrating. Quite funny :lol:

Feeler Gauge Location...not a Norton but gives the general idea.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22794316@N03/9127080177/

Loosening and tightening the lock nuts.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/22794316@N ... otostream/

With the feeler gauge in the gap between the valve stem top and the rocker arm, the gap is adjusted to just drag on the feeler gauge as you slide it out of the gap. If you can't pull on the feeler gauge it's too tight. If it slides right out it is too loose.
 
I found out what cam was installed into my bike when the engine was built, and looked up the company for the specifics of the cam. It is a megacycle 560-N-R 280/280, with a running clearance of .013/.013. Should the valve/tappet clearance be set to .013?
 
Hi
This thread makes me happy I am running Maney 920 barrels and steel pushrods, do them up until you take out all the slack and back off an eighth of a turn and were done!
The different expansion rates of the aluminium barrel and steel pushrods takes care of the clearance required and the quietest tappets ive had.
Even takes care of the worn in dimples.
Yes I will get my coat now smug B**tard :D
JohnT
 
Getting the "feel" of feeler gages just takes a little practice. Set with a .006" gage, properly done, will be easy to check. A .007" will barely be able to jam in, if at all, and it won't slide. The .005" will whistle right through, no drag, like throwing a hotdog down a hallway. :mrgreen:
 
nortncom said:
I found out what cam was installed into my bike when the engine was built, and looked up the company for the specifics of the cam. It is a megacycle 560-N-R 280/280, with a running clearance of .013/.013. Should the valve/tappet clearance be set to .013?

I recommend to call megacycle and and let yourself explain the valve adjust procedure for this special cam.

http://www.megacyclecams.com/
 
I found an informative cam comparison on the Norton owners associations website. They recommend setting the clearances for the megacycle 560-N-R at .013/.020 . Does that sound about right? Seems like a large gap compared to all the other cams. Anyone have any experience with this cam grind?
 
I never had a problem setting the clearances, but the thread count was a new nice idea!

But I actually once broke an adjustment screw while tightening the lock nut. This is a bit brittle since it is hardened. I cant find a torque figure for this. Anyone having a recommendation? Since my mishap I am a bit afraid I have them too loose.
 
nortncom said:
I found an informative cam comparison on the Norton owners associations website. They recommend setting the clearances for the megacycle 560-N-R at .013/.020 . Does that sound about right? Seems like a large gap compared to all the other cams. Anyone have any experience with this cam grind?

It says .013" on both intake and exhaust for the 560-N-R on the Megacycle website. That seems like a huge gap to me, like a racing cam not a street cam, but that's what the recommended gap is. What is your intended use for this bike?
 
Postby hobot » Mon Jun 24, 2013 10:10 am
I'd be all ears to know of a cam between standard and Combat 2S, as only ones I've seen listed as more aggressive than standard needed more than 2S clearances. I'd sure scan online the cam vendors listing the range of lash

Glad ya id'd cam and its listed lash in time before following the seemingly reasonable advisers. Wonder what would of happened if set below the recommendation though, bent push rods or just quieter engine? Less lash is a trick way to get more lift and duration from cams so not all that risky - up to a point. Someones gotta know already or find out to know for sure. Too bad not you now : )
 
When I was a kid, a mate of mine had an iron Triumph 500 twin. When he pulled the motor apart he found that the cam followers were so badly worn that they were concave, and almost down to the holes. So he had them welded up with cobalite , and reground to a sensible radius. The bike went much slower after that. 'Some things are so bad that they are good' !
 
What confuses me is that megacycle recommends the tolerances for the 560nr at .013/.013, but the Norton owners association says .013/.020. .020 is huge
 
nortncom said:
What confuses me is that megacycle recommends the tolerances for the 560nr at .013/.013, but the Norton owners association says .013/.020. .020 is huge

.013" is huge in my book. Most engines when they say .006" and you get to .008" they are noisey as hell. Rockers flap and clack against the valve stem and push rods jump around...oil isn't thick enough to quiet them down...that's why I asked what your intended use for the bike...don't think that's a good street cam...if you plan on racing it...maybe.
 
dennisgb you just have not been window shopping much on range of Norton cams and lashes. Just none I've seen had more than .016" listed so huge is relative. Ugh Maybe the NOC guys found out the hard way to list .020" lash instead of vendors recommendation, so some mystery remains.
 
I'll throw out some observations based on overhead valve, overhead cam, iron, and aluminum engine experience. Bear with me:
For starters, let's dispense with the "feel" method, since that's so hard to describe in text form. There's a more empirical way; one thousandth of an inch one way or another is not going to trash your engine. The designers know that (we're not talking race engines here, just stock or nearly so). That being said, for any given clearance needed, get a feeler gauge that's one-thou larger, and one-thou smaller. This will be your "go no-go" gauge. If you're shooting for .006", a .005" should be easy to insert, whereas a .007" will not go in. At this point, you have to be pretty close to the desired clearance (less than .001" either side). In fact, I have seen feeler gauge sets with a step ground into them, and labeled something like .005"-.007". This, obviously, is what you'd use for our hypothetical .006". Of course, this is with the follower on the heel of the cam lobe, which is obtained by following the procedure in the FSM. As I've heard said in the past; "Valves are like children; if you can't hear them, they're probably doing damage".
Here's the thing with the Norton, (and Volkswagens); they have aluminum pushrods (expands lots with heat) and iron cylinders (expands little with heat). Let's start with the engine up to temp, since this is where we're concerned about running clearances. You want the absolute minimum clearance, but not so small as to hold the valve open (spoken of in earlier posts). Now, cool those aluminum pushrods and iron cylinder down to room temp; the aluminum shrinks more than the iron, increasing the valve clearance. How can we know that this is happening? Two totally differnt combinations that give virtually identical results. My 78 Yamaha XS650, and a Hardly-Ableson Shovelhead. The Yamy is overhead cam with rockers, while the H-D is all steel pushrods and cast iron jugs. The Yamahahaha runs .002" and .004" and has no pushrods to throw in the mix, while the H-D (get this) runs ZERO clearance when cold! As the engine heats up, the jug will expand a bit more than the pushrods, giving you your desired running clearance. Crazy, but it works.
So, back to the Norton. Since it has aluminum pushrods and cast irons jugs, it needs quite a bit more clearance than a lot of other engines so that it will be correct once up to temp.
 
Nater_Potater said:
So, back to the Norton. Since it has aluminum pushrods and cast irons jugs, it needs quite a bit more clearance than a lot of other engines so that it will be correct once up to temp.

Just to throw a fly into your hypothetical ointment, my Norton ES2 has cast iron barrels, alloy pushrods & alloy cylinder head just like a Commando. It's valve clearance settings are inlet & exhaust zero clearance with pushrods just free to turn! Confusing isn't it?

Ian
 
two pence worth.
We agree that a cold engine and a hot one will have some" growth" Alloy push rods will expand the with heat, as will every thing else.
We agree that the vavles need some clearance, to enable the compression to be maintained ,through out the heat cycle.
Some one in the past must have come up with a measurement, Now was this based upon just the expandsion with a bit for luck added? or something to do with valve timing ?
What ever the reason its wrote on stone.
I would guess the figure set cold is the deceided setting that doe's the job,through out the normal thermal expandsion...
As the job needs doing on a mileage basis, the company thought its a safer thing to do cold, fumbling about with hot things in a confined space is not really on....Ouch :!:
But if we want a quiet running motor we try to keep the valve clearance as close as possible to the book, But ........is this the best setting?
Ok push rods grow with heat, but the crank case above the cam does, as the head does and to a lesser degree the iron cylinders....its interesting to know just what the cold -hot differance would be :?:
If it's all down to the alloy rods expanding, should we be installing light steel push rods :?: , then we might have Zero clearance cold...i once set a 650 at zero..it sounded great.
It had alloy cylinders and ran fine. no nasty clatter.
 
Interesting aspect john robert bould. On the ultra short stroke I run the Megacycle N480 and D grind cams with 0.002" lash or just perceptible looseness when cold. Megacycle recommends a 0.015 lash cold for their D grind.

The reason for the tighter lash is that the barrel is aluminum and the pushrods are Chromoly steel. The difference in thermal coefficient of expansion between the alloy barrel and steel pushrods is the reason. I never checked lash when hot. In a Commando, the conditions are opposite where you have a cast iron cylinder with a lower thermals coefficient of expansion and aluminum pushrods with a greater coefficient of expansion.
 
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