Using copper wire as a head gasket (2015)

robs ss · Sep 1, 2018

Well my reading (and what I'm doing) is copper wire both sides (around pushrod tunnels and rear oil drain) plus Gaskacinch.
I believe this is what Jim is recommending.
Cheers
Rob

Deets55 · Sep 1, 2018

madass140 · Sep 1, 2018

Deets55 said:
I might be reading this wrong, but I think Jim is saying the wire is only on one side of the gasket but the sealer is applied to both sides of the wire. IE, sealer on head, place wire, sealer on gasket surface. Thus sandwiching the wire with sealer.
Pete

Thats the way I read his post also. Surely applying the copper wire to one side only is only sealing one side ,no?

Deets55 · Sep 1, 2018

madass140 said:
Thats the way I read his post also. Surely applying the copper wire to one side only is only sealing one side ,no?

IIRC I think the wire on the head side helps lock the aluminum to the gasket. It also puts pressure on the barrel side by increasing the pressure in that area. For some reason I think the difference in expansion rates of all the different materials causes the issue. I’m sure Jim S will set this to rest as soon as sees the question.
Pete

jseng1 · Sep 1, 2018

I have only applied the .005" copper wire on one side - to the head (glue down the wire with pliobond). It will flatten out and bury itself into the copper gasket.

Zero leaks.

As deets said:
"It also puts pressure on the barrel side by increasing the pressure in that area."

Its important to use the pliobond on each surface - the head, the cylinders and both sides if the gasket. That way the oil won't worm its way through. If you use too much glue then you may have to tap the exhaust nut with a piece of wood to break it loose on disassembly.

Steves · Sep 1, 2018

Is this to keep oil from leak outside the cylinder or inside into the barrel and head..... or both?

jseng1 · Sep 1, 2018

Both. To make a copper HG oil tight - No leaks anywhere - using the wire and the pliobond.

It also works with a .003" thick copper head gasket ring - for boosting compression without milling the head. Why mill the head????? I've been running one for years without a hint of leak.

Using copper wire as a head gasket (2015)

MexicoMike · Sep 3, 2018

Just to confirm re the pic above: You are using a copper .003" gasket for the cylinder and ONLY some .006(?) wire for the galleries (no other gasket)? Are you using the copper wire AND the .003 gasket for the cylinder or just the copper gasket? .003 seems awfully thin for a head gasket but if it works...

jseng1 · Sep 3, 2018

Than's right. The copper ring is only .003" thick and the copper wire is only .005" thick (not .006"). That and the pliobond keeps everything oil tight. No other gasket material is used. Just like in the photo. The copper wire is only for the oil drain hole and the pushrod tunnels. You do not use the wire around the cylinders.

With a regular copper HG you do not use the copper around the cylinders either - only for the oil drain hole and the pushrod tunnels. But you must use pliobond on each metal surface and glue down the wire etc.

MexicoMike · Sep 3, 2018

Pretty neat!

Steves · Sep 4, 2018

Pliobond is rare as hens teeth here in the UK or incredibly expensive to get hold of, anyone recommend a suitable alternative?

Fast Eddie · Sep 4, 2018

Yes, I’d like to know of a UK / EU version of Pliobond too... Evo Stick jumps to mind, but I don’t know...

Also, @ Jim, I’m wondering if you’ve ever used your .003” head gasket rings WITH a copper gasket?

I’m thinking they’d crush into the head gasket in the same way as the wire does and give an extra level of security to the head gasket?

jseng1 · Sep 4, 2018

Fast Eddie said:
Yes, I’d like to know of a UK / EU version of Pliobond too... Evo Stick jumps to mind, but I don’t know...

Also, @ Jim, I’m wondering if you’ve ever used your .003” head gasket rings WITH a copper gasket?

I’m thinking they’d crush into the head gasket in the same way as the wire does and give an extra level of security to the head gasket?

The important thing about using a contact sealer for the HG is that it qualifies as high temp. If its not high temp with a hot oil proof bond then forget it.

See the temps and results of sealers here:
https://jsmotorsport.com/technical-sealant-comparison/

If you want to add something around the cylinders then I would try adding a circle of .005" wire around the bore. But security around the cylinders doesn't seem to be a issue with a solid copper HG unless your using nitro.

Here's what I raced with after my composite gasket failed (from my race manual). Took several re-torques.

Steves · Sep 4, 2018

I had read about super glue being used!

jseng1 · Sep 5, 2018

Back then I only used a drop of superglue where the ends of the wire butted together. When torqued down the copper wire flattened out and the ends flowed into each other - the joint disappeared. I was using the wire only and nothing else and it worked great - but needed several re-torques until everything stabilized.

Steves · Sep 5, 2018

jseng1 said:
Back then I only used a drop of superglue where the ends of the wire butted together. When torqued down the copper wire flattened out and the ends flowed into each other - the joint disappeared. I was using the wire only and nothing else and it worked great - but needed several re-torques until everything stabilized.

Thanks, I am convinced that the oil I burn in the right cylinder on my bike (after a lot of head scratching and head removals) is coming from the drain passageway. So this November the plan is to try the old copper wire trick. I have found the copper spray stuff, also a source of cheaper Pliobond in Germany (I'll need to be quick to avoid import duty) and have superglue.
There is surprising little about oil burn being from this source on the Internet.

jseng1 · Sep 6, 2018

Don't use superglue - its only for end butting copper wire in a groove and you have to machine a groove for that. Instead - you should overlap (cross) the wire as in the photo.

Using copper wire as a head gasket (2015)

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