Annealing a solid copper head gasket (2015)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hot copper is funny stuff as first metal mankind learned to mess with and learned some more looking in jewelry and artist and casters findings to see that even sanding wire brushing and sand or pecan shell blasting work hardens it as well as vibration even as mild as stereo bass speakers> i do not have map torch as propane works most my need or jumps up to oxy?acet to braze or cut or melt> Even just time allow the atoms to move shuffle to more stable arrangements at room temp so hardens some in storage>
 
hobot said:
Hot copper is funny stuff as first metal mankind learned to mess with and learned some more looking in jewelry and artist and casters findings to see that even sanding wire brushing and sand or pecan shell blasting work hardens it as well as vibration even as mild as stereo bass speakers> i do not have map torch as propane works most my need or jumps up to oxy?acet to braze or cut or melt> Even just time allow the atoms to move shuffle to more stable arrangements at room temp so hardens some in storage>
Click to expand...

Cold copper is funny too. Just try machining it.
 
Ugh my worse copper experience was after removing the Dunstall bean can and heavy cluster of baffle tubes was too loud but inside where the taper ends is a plate with 2 inch pipe threads so found copper plumbing fitting and had muffler shot braze a pipe on the threaded fitting which got it orange level hot so when set down to re grab to water dunk it began to sag under its own weigh like warm wax Ugh, Had to beat it back rounder and mess with distorted threads to get to work as intended but being on Peel it got exposed to 1000+ F so sofened up again and got spit off edge of Mt hwy and never found. Next time will use Alu pipe fitting. Last time for Trixie I placed gasket on camp stove burner and moved around for bright red just right, not too soft to handle careful. Its tpo used to re use 5th time. Observing oxidation stains, it seems gas pressure escape + head clamp pressure over time have depressed some areas so can not clamp down enough to fully flatten any more. I will go down world list of vendor for a real robust version of FlameRing but if no longer available back to copper. Blew out last poor foil ring version 15 miles after hi torque install and almost blew through gas hose before I got stopped after a while of just setting mind for next 7 miles on one jug images of fuel hose routing floated up then remembered someone mentioning how close to barrel, YIKES killed it nick of time.
 
I've bought ones that were not fully soft, so I annealed them.

Heat to red, over the gas cooker and drop it into cold water. Now it's soft and clean.
 
Annealing a solid copper head gasket (2015)
Annealing a solid copper head gasket (2015)
 
I can't for the life of me remember who told me what to do or maybe where I read it, but I always annealed copper head gaskets and never had a head gasket failure (probably the only thing that never broke on me). I lightly pinched a very small bit of the gasket in vise grips, heated red with propane, then rapidly quenched by dropping it into a pail of water, always entering the water edgewise as mentioned above. If you don't quench, I don't think you are annealing.
 
Consider me miss-informed as usual. The grades I achieved in my metallurgical courses were underwhelming to say the least. Anyway, I applaud the correction. We should try not to let posts with incorrect or misleading information stand.
With further research behind me, the one thing a rapid quench does is reduce the formation of oxides that then has to be cleaned up, as mentioned earlier in this thread among other places.
I will continue using solid copper head gaskets and will anneal them as I did in years gone by, complete with quenching.
 
Atlas Commando said:
I don't recall ever having a head gasket leak, neither compression nor oil.
Click to expand...

Do you do anything special?

Oil leaks from pushrod tunnels and / or oil return hole are what I hear of.

I only ever used copper gaskets on Triumph twins, but of course they have neither of the above in the head gasket.

Conversely, I’ve only ever used a stock composite gasket on my Commando, but that isn’t an option on the 920 I’m building.

Hence the question...
 
Are there any downsides to using a new composite gasket each time you pull the head other than a bit of cost?
 
Danno said:
Are there any downsides to using a new composite gasket each time you pull the head other than a bit of cost?
Click to expand...
Composite gaskets normally fail by having a chunk blown out, hard to continue any further. A copper basket will normally just leak oil so you can carry on but with an oily head. There will be exceptions of course.
 
kommando said:
Composite gaskets normally fail by having a chunk blown out, hard to continue any further. A copper basket will normally just leak oil so you can carry on but with an oily head. There will be exceptions of course.
Click to expand...

That’s true, which I guess is why most racers prefer it. Copper is better to work with when setting up a squish band too as it’s more stable. The composite crushes a lot. You set your squish with one gasket, and you can only ‘hope’ the one you actually use crushes the same.

Would still appreciate some more detailed answers from successful copper gasket users. Are you just annealing and fitting dry? Using a jointing compuond? Impact adhesive? Silk thread? Copper wire? Etc?
 
I have had two composite gaskets fail and now only use copper head gaskets, I alway annael them before fitting but last time I forgot to do it, I used a spray on gasket coating on both sides of the gasket last time and after 7 years its hasn't leaked, the head has only been retorqued once after 500 miles, my head has only been removed 5 times in 43 years 2 x to replace blown composit gaskets and 3 pull downs.

Ashley
 
One of the risks of not annealing is that, due to work-hardening, the copper can become quite brittle leading to fracture lines forming. I remember, as a student, seeing a piece of copper bar (1" dia. x 1" long) exploding like glass in a compression testing press.
Brittle fracture lines can, obviously, lead to significant compression and/or oil loss.

Cheers
Rob
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

L
  • Locked
copper head gasket
Replies
13
Views
2,561
Biscuit
B
jseng1
  • Locked
removing oil tight copper head gasket with pliobond
Replies
10
Views
2,599
oldbeezer
oldbeezer
jseng1
  • Locked
sealer for copper head gaskets
2
Replies
21
Views
6,799
jseng1
jseng1
S
  • Locked
Using copper wire as a head gasket (2015)
2
Replies
36
Views
6,338
jseng1
jseng1
lcrken
  • Locked
Copper Head Gasket Bolt Torques
Replies
5
Views
2,128
Brooking 850
Brooking 850
Back
Top