Uh-oh!

Larry S · Nov 11, 2023

marshg246 said:
I don't know what oil expanders have color markings but usually they butt together - not overlap. Do they look like the two ends are smaller and should overlap?

Personally, I would not re-install those rings, I would re-hone just enough to get a decent crosshatch on the cylinder walls and install new rings.

I’d put a new set of rings in if I had them. I don’t think it will damage anything by reusing them so I may as well give it a try. Like I said earlier if it still smokes when I’m finished I’ll get new rings. Nothing but more wrenching.

Shelby-Right · Nov 11, 2023

Larry S said:
I’d put a new set of rings in if I had them. I don’t think it will damage anything by reusing them so I may as well give it a try. Like I said earlier if it still smokes when I’m finished I’ll get new rings. Nothing but more wrenching.

Hi Larry a good thing to remember with rings , as I was taught as a engine reconditioner was to liken them to sex

, "if it's in its up and if it's out it's down, so if you have a internal champher it goes up and if you have an external step it goes down . Top and second rings I'm talking about .The reason for this is to induce torsional twist . Cheers .

Larry S · Nov 11, 2023

Okay, i checked the expander rings and there is only one way to fit them. The red must slip under the green in order to fit. Refit the rings/pistons and assembled the barrels. Getting something to eat and then back at it.

concours · Nov 11, 2023

Okay, i checked the expander rings and there is only one way to fit them. The red must slip under the green in order to fit. Refit the rings/pistons and assembled the barrels. Getting something to eat and then back at it.

Stop.
Drop.
Roll.

You are doing it wrong. Don't be offended, this is nuts & bolts.

Larry S · Nov 11, 2023

concours said:
Okay, i checked the expander rings and there is only one way to fit them. The red must slip under the green in order to fit. Refit the rings/pistons and assembled the barrels. Getting something to eat and then back at it.

Stop.
Drop.
Roll.

What am I doing wrong?

concours · Nov 11, 2023

Larry S said:
What am I doing wrong?

Overlapping the expander ends. You need to BUTT the ends, not overlap them.

Larry S · Nov 11, 2023

concours said:
Overlapping the expander ends. Butt the ends, not overlap.

That’s the thing the ends do not butt up. The red end is flat and the green end has a curve to it allowing it to slip over top of the red end. If I physically butt the ends together the ring is too long to even fit in the bore.

marshg246 · Nov 11, 2023

Larry S said:
What am I doing wrong?

Think of them as springs. Their job is to push out on the two thin oil rings that sit in a step on the expander. That are supposed to seem too big to fit butted - the thin rings and the expander compress as they go in the bore. Be happy yours are colored - many are not and it's a PITA so make sure they are butted!

marshg246 · Nov 11, 2023

Larry S said:
That’s the thing the ends do not butt up. The red end is flat and the green end has a curve to it allowing it to slip over top of the red end. If I physically butt the ends together the ring is too long to even fit in the bore.

Sounds like the red end is broken - have you checked both? Are you the one that originally installed them?

Torontonian · Nov 11, 2023

You also could simply take the bottom end , pistons ,rings , barrels , into an automotive machine or performance shop and let them take over . Just a suggestion . I'm the first to admit defeat and give it to the Pros . But try first . Good luck .

Larry S · Nov 11, 2023

marshg246 said:
Sounds like the red end is broken - have you checked both? Are you the one that originally installed them?

It is not broken. If so both rings are broke exactly alike. That is how they were manufactured. I originally installed them and that is how they came out of the package. Like I said they only fit one way.

concours · Nov 11, 2023

Larry S said:
That’s the thing the ends do not butt up. The red end is flat and the green end has a curve to it allowing it to slip over top of the red end. If I physically butt the ends together the ring is too long to even fit in the bore.

The ring must butt up.

Not overlap.

It will fit in the bore.

It is a big round convoluted spring.

I humbly suggest getting help with this. Do you know any mechanics you can bribe with beer?

marshg246 · Nov 11, 2023

Larry S said:
It is not broken. If so both rings are broke exactly alike. That is how they were manufactured. I originally installed them and that is how they came out of the package. Like I said they only fit one way.

Do you remember who the manufacturer is?

Shelby-Right · Nov 11, 2023

Larry S said:
It is not broken. If so both rings are broke exactly alike. That is how they were manufactured. I originally installed them and that is how they came out of the package. Like I said they only fit one way.

Hi Larry do you have a 3 piece ring or a 4 piece ring ? . I think you need to upload a photo , I think we all want you to get it right . Cheers .

Shelby-Right · Nov 11, 2023

Larry S said:
That’s the thing the ends do not butt up. The red end is flat and the green end has a curve to it allowing it to slip over top of the red end. If I physically butt the ends together the ring is too long to even fit in the bore.

Do you think someone has trimmed the expander with some side cutters , was the packet opened ? ? .

Tokay · Nov 12, 2023

kommando · Nov 12, 2023

The red end is flat and the green end has a curve to it allowing it to slip over top of the red end.

Then look at @Tokay's pic's and there is a mismatch, even Tokay's pic's cause questions as pic's 1 and 2 seem to show one type of expander and pic 3 shows a different type with upturned ends.

Best if Larry shows pics of his expander ring to see if his are the same or a different type again, maybe with an end of each type.

The expander ring is a spring which allows a lot of compression

marshg246 · Nov 12, 2023

Larry S said:
It is not broken. If so both rings are broke exactly alike. That is how they were manufactured. I originally installed them and that is how they came out of the package. Like I said they only fit one way.

Please post a close-up picture that shows the red and green ends and a couple of bumps before them. This is making zero sense in words. Or, I can supply a set of Hepolite rings that have a different type of oil rings to stop the confusion or a complete set of pistons/rings/pins/clips. You've got to be tired of putting it together and taking it apart. Call me if you want to talk about it: 703-200-4025.

I'm positive that if you put it together with the expander overlapped, you're wasting your time.

Shelby-Right · Nov 12, 2023

When fitting the ring, as in pic 3 , fit lower outer rail before the butted joint and come across it , this will keep it together , and then the top oil rail starting on the opposite side of butt joint , again coming across the butt joint going around the opposite way , till it clicks in , when assembled correctly it should move as one , you can space your gaps later .

htown16 · Nov 12, 2023

Get a set of Hastings rings. I heard Hastings was discontinuing making them for the Commando but they still seem to be widely available from the various vendors. I rebuilt 4 Commando engines with them and they sealed on first start up. Follow the instructions for which side is up on the compression rings. The oil ring spacer has abutting ends and is installed with the ends facing up. Use a ball hone to break the glaze.

Uh-oh!

Similar threads