Trouble at Mill

marknorton said:

This is not looking good for Norton at all.
See link to in depth investigation by Biker Glory. I for one am sorry this is going downhill so badly.
From the published accounts, the finances dont look too clever at all.

http://www.bikerglory.com/2012/08/the-norton-saga/
http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/fo ... es-warning

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Before you believe that the posting by Nick is the gospel on Norton, you should take a lot of the following interview conducted by respected industry insider, Todd Halterman.

http://www.motorcycleinsurance.com/inte ... ortongate/

It appears that Nick, the writer of the Biker Glory piece was wrong and judging by his comments, I'm starting to believe his sole intent is to slander Norton rather than to provide an objective perspective. Stuart Garner clearly answered his allegations regarding delayed delivery times, problems with suppliers and previous employees of Norton. The simple fact is that his op-ed (must refer to it as a heavily slanted editorial piece) only references the opinions of disgruntled former suppliers and employees, as well as customers that chose to get refunds rather than wait for their bike. Mr. Garner clearly expressed his remorse for the mistakes the company has made in the article with Todd. As a private company, Norton is under no obligation to talk about current financials although Mr. Garner did indicate that the company is well-positioned to continue growing. I hardly think that a reputable company such as Santander would partner with Norton as a racing sponsor if the company were in financial difficulty. Nick can continue to publish the accounts of the disenchanted, and pretend they are news, but what he's really doing in attempting to tarnish Norton is losing his own credibility and making those the perpetuate his ignorant rant, equally disdained.

You can trash the article by Nick if you like, but to do so you would have to discount all the Consumer Action Group filings against Norton for nondelivery and disregard that many of the top level Norton employees have quit. Choosing to swallow an interview by Stuart Garner as opposed to the considerable negative EVIDENCE kind of smacks of wishful thinking, in my book.

JimC said:

You can trash the article by Nick if you like, but to do so you would have to discount all the Consumer Action Group filings against Norton for nondelivery and disregard that many of the top level Norton employees have quit. Choosing to swallow an interview by Stuart Garner as opposed to the considerable negative EVIDENCE kind of smacks of wishful thinking, in my book.

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Top level?

Just posted by the NEW Norton on Facebook:

Norton 961 Commando Passes USA EPA and CARB Testing
Norton Motorcycles (UK) Ltd today announces an important milestone with their ability to supply bikes to the North American and Canadian market upon the successful completion of the durability and emission testing for its Commando 961 series of motorcycles.

The emission and durability testing was carried out by a certified testing laboratory and at specific intervals during its 15,000Km accumulation the bikes are tested to ensure compliance with EPA and CARB exhaust, noise and evaporative emissions. The lab’s testing also completes a significant durability and safety trial and the new 961 Norton Commando passed and exceeded all standards by a wide margin.

This testing process included NHSTA’s safety and compliance documentation, plus the certification testing review and processing required by the U.S. EPA and the California Air Resources Board. The remaining steps in the certification process are primarily paper based compliance reporting and subsequent approvals from various departments.

Stuart Garner CEO of Norton Motorcycles (UK) Ltd commented:

“I would like to thank the dedicat¬ed Norton team for accomplishing such a monumental feat. For the bike to come through the rigorous 15,000Km testing shows its’ great durability and build quality. It’s a credit to both our design and production teams, along with our key suppliers who have also worked alongside us on to ensure we have the very best quality components.

The process of opening the key USA market began two years ago with the recruitment of Dan Van Epps, an industry veteran and ex CEO of Ducati North America. Dan has helped steer us through the process which has taken continual resource and investment to achieve the approvals, which of course alongside Europe give us another of the most significant markets in the world. I would also like to thank Peter Howes, Norton Canada who has worked tirelessly to make this possible.

Both Norton America and Norton Canada have been busy building our dealer network and we now have a solid foundation to invest in and build upon.

It has taken the Norton team a little under four years to successfully rebuild this iconic British motorcycle brand. However, whilst there is much left to do, our immediate focus will be to continue to work hard to get our early UK orders delivered ahead of growing production volume for the export market.”

swooshdave said:

JimC said:

You can trash the article by Nick if you like, but to do so you would have to discount all the Consumer Action Group filings against Norton for nondelivery and disregard that many of the top level Norton employees have quit. Choosing to swallow an interview by Stuart Garner as opposed to the considerable negative EVIDENCE kind of smacks of wishful thinking, in my book.

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Top level?

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Norton's chief designer, Pierre Terblanche, quit after six months, stating he would not risk his reputation on such a poor business plan. Is that top level enough for you?

JimC said:

swooshdave said:

JimC said:

You can trash the article by Nick if you like, but to do so you would have to discount all the Consumer Action Group filings against Norton for nondelivery and disregard that many of the top level Norton employees have quit. Choosing to swallow an interview by Stuart Garner as opposed to the considerable negative EVIDENCE kind of smacks of wishful thinking, in my book.

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Top level?

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Norton's chief designer, Pierre Terblanche, quit after six months, stating he would not risk his reputation on such a poor business plan. Is that top level enough for you?

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Yawn. Have you seen his bikes?

But really, do you think Norton needs a designer like that?

Yawn. Have you seen his bikes?

But really, do you think Norton needs a designer like that?

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Evidently, Stuart Garner did.

Did Pierre Terblanche call you and personally speak to you about why he left Norton? Don't think so. I didn't trash Nick, I merely stated that he only posted one VERY biased side of the story. If all you want to do is bash the company, why do you stay on Norton? Perhaps you're only pretending to love the brand and should move along to a little Japanese bike... I don't see ANY of you naysayers running your own motorcycle company, nor being successful. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes first and then maybe you'll have some credibility.

Motopixie said:

Did Pierre Terblanche call you and personally speak to you about why he left Norton? Don't think so. I didn't trash Nick, I merely stated that he only posted one VERY biased side of the story. If all you want to do is bash the company, why do you stay on Norton? Perhaps you're only pretending to love the brand and should move along to a little Japanese bike... I don't see ANY of you naysayers running your own motorcycle company, nor being successful. Walk a mile in someone else's shoes first and then maybe you'll have some credibility.

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Pierre Terblanche did an interview where he stated his reason for leaving Norton. Why don't you deal with reality?


As for my loyalty to Norton, I've owned one since 1971. You?

The simple truth is that the company is not being mismanaged, is not going downhill, does not have cashflow problems and doesn't suffer from a lack of supply or manufacturing capability. You may personally dislike Stuart - although I'd wager the overwhelming majority of you have never even met the man - but you cannot argue that he hasn't worked tirelessly to bring back an iconic brand. Is it ever going to be everything to everyone, no. But no brand will ever satisfy every consumer. That's why there's a little thing called competition. Feel free to act upon your freedom of choice and choose another brand. Stuart has been honest and forthright in saying that he made mistakes, and he's also worked diligently to rectify them. I'd hazard a guess that not a single one the naysayers on this or any other forum could have made it to the point where Norton are today without upsetting some people along the way. Show me one company anywhere in the world that is perfect. There isn't one. Period. However companies that do the right thing, which Norton has, admit their mistakes and attempt to learn from them, and right them and carry on. It would benefit all of you to do the same.

The simple truth is that the company is not being mismanaged, is not going downhill, does not have cashflow problems and doesn't suffer from a lack of supply or manufacturing capability

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And you get this information from where? You work for Garner? Inquiring minds would like to know.

JimC said:

The simple truth is that the company is not being mismanaged, is not going downhill, does not have cashflow problems and doesn't suffer from a lack of supply or manufacturing capability

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And you get this information from where? You work for Garner? Inquiring minds would like to know.

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He's getting it from the same information you do. You each just choose to ignore different parts. :mrgreen:

Motopixie said:

The simple truth is that the company is not being mismanaged, is not going downhill, does not have cashflow problems and doesn't suffer from a lack of supply or manufacturing capability. You may personally dislike Stuart - although I'd wager the overwhelming majority of you have never even met the man - but you cannot argue that he hasn't worked tirelessly to bring back an iconic brand. Is it ever going to be everything to everyone, no. But no brand will ever satisfy every consumer. That's why there's a little thing called competition. Feel free to act upon your freedom of choice and choose another brand. Stuart has been honest and forthright in saying that he made mistakes, and he's also worked diligently to rectify them. I'd hazard a guess that not a single one the naysayers on this or any other forum could have made it to the point where Norton are today without upsetting some people along the way. Show me one company anywhere in the world that is perfect. There isn't one. Period. However companies that do the right thing, which Norton has, admit their mistakes and attempt to learn from them, and right them and carry on. It would benefit all of you to do the same.

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Funny thing that you joined this forum only today, and immediately went to bat for the new "N". Personally I could care less, but I don't appreciate your attitude towards my Cdo brethren. These people are discussing real concerns about a company who's name is dear to their hearts. While we're hazarding guess's. My guess is very few of these forum members would waste their money on one of those bikes anyway. Not that it would ever get delivered.

Who is Motopixie? Haven't seen an intro, have a horse in the race?

swooshdave said:

JimC said:

The simple truth is that the company is not being mismanaged, is not going downhill, does not have cashflow problems and doesn't suffer from a lack of supply or manufacturing capability

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And you get this information from where? You work for Garner? Inquiring minds would like to know.

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He's getting it from the same information you do. You each just choose to ignore different parts. :mrgreen:

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Yes, it's true, I don't have first hand information. But I say you would have to be more than a bit naive to ignore the many, many reports of nondeliveries, top level employees resigning, vendor contracts being cancelled for nonpayment and take for gospel the interview of the company owner. That's what I would call wishful thinking, at best. If you were to send a deposit, at this time, to Norton I'd say you were well past being naive. If Stuart Garner had the reputation of, say Erik Buehl, that's a whole different story. Anyway, Dave, we understand that you are one of the believers. Just hang on to your money for a bit.

Matt, if you Have put a deposit down, then paranoid aint the word...L.O.L.
Actually, you should, probably, carefully scape that deposit off, - that is, if it has left any trace...

I wish Jerry would lock this topic, :roll:

I hear ya Horton. But there's nothing wrong with a little heated dialogue. It gives J.A.W. something to do.

& Not just me...Oct `12 Cycle World editorial pretty much sez - Hey Garner, put up or shut up..& give it back..

Who am I? I'm a rider just like all of you. I live in Texas and I have no affiliation with Norton. My day job has nothing to do with motorcycles, I work in oil and gas. But I get tired of seeing people beat up an individual - regardless of where they are or affiliation - just because it's convenient to do so. Tearing someone down to make yourself feel better is petty. Simply put, I don't like bullys.