Tri-Spark and Podtronics

dynodave said:
correct
1. one wire in, one wire out...inductor


Certainly a strong candidate +1



2. LC of course will have 3 leads...1&2 are the series pass and #3 is the capacitor shunt to ground.
3. yes the ignition must be designed to function in the electrical environment it is meant to be run in.



4. The old podtronics was designed and built by Bob Kizer(RIP) WAY before trispark and pazon even existed. Bob and I talked as master technician contemporaries several decades ago about mags and electrics in general. That is when we ran things like magneto's, points-coil, analog boyer and lucas Rita.
5. The podtronics was to give the Neanderthals an option to quit bitchin about the zener and discreet rectifier.
Click to expand...

The Podtronics also worked with the old Lucas E3L generators replacing the horrid mechanical regs of the time. I rode one bike for over a decade solely on battery power after frying a number of Lucas armatures! Daylight rides!! It runs an Alton/Podtronics now.

I also had dealings with Bob Kizer dating to the late '70's. Nice man. RIP

~998cc
 
I can't help thinking that Trispark don't care much about their products' reputation. The 'Classic Twin' Trispark system is well known for total failure at low mileages (under 10,000 and often after only 3000 miles or so). This has been going on for years and I'm not aware of changes having been made. I wonder to what extent Steve Kelley relies on the fact that most of his customers only cover low annual mileages and will remain happy with their ignition systems for years.

I speak as someone who has been let down badly by Trispark Classic Twin systems twice (the second one was a replacement under guarantee, but it was extremely hard work getting Mr Kelly to agree that it was his product, not my bike's wiring, and the argument dragged on over the last few weeks of good riding weather of summer 2013).

I do realise that there are plenty of Trispark fans out there who won't hear a word said against them, but I wonder how many fans have ridden more than a few thousand miles on them?
 
Has someone measured the noisy and dirty DC that is being produced by the Podtronics, someone must have a scope to do this and capture the trace, this will clear up the issue.

Myself, 3 years and no problems with both being fitted, no reports from others either, so just how much of a problem is this really. The only difference is that I run wire wound HT leads, like modern vehicles.


Sparx have a similar problem but in reverse, with their 3 phase stater offerings.
 
Curious to know how the Podtronics is wired in on the “problem” bikes. If the stock wire loom is used is it possible the noise is coming in through the harness?
Maybe wiring the alternator directly the the regulator and the having the output from the regulator go directly to the battery might be better. The battery might even act as a buffer.
Purely speculation on my part, more of a question that a suggestion.
Pete
 
Fast Eddie said:
Are you running the single phase podrontic ?
Click to expand...

Yes, single phase Pod. I have never had any issues with the Trispark/Pod (since '12 when I installed the Alton) or with the Trispark/3-phase lucas/Lucas rectifier/zeners that was on the bike from '08 to '12.
 
MexicoMike said:
Yes, single phase Pod. I have never had any issues with the Trispark/Pod (since '12 when I installed the Alton) or with the Trispark/3-phase lucas/Lucas rectifier/zeners that was on the bike from '08 to '12.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe the ‘noise’ that causes the issues with Tri Spark as discussed in this thread is also causing issues with your speedo?
 
Yeah - maybe. OR...is it the podtronics? OR, is it related to wire-routing of any/all the components?

The cable-driven speedo had no issues... ;)
 
So, anybody running Podtronics with Pazon or other ignitions? Any issues? It might be wider spread than just Tri-Spark.
 
I've been running a Trispark and 3-phase Podtronics regulator on one of the MK3s for several years now, and so far no problems, but it's not really high mileage use, maybe 8,000 miles total since the rebuild in 2014. But I also follow Jim Comstock's advice, and carry a spare Trispark, just in case.

On the question of whether the rectifier/regulator (Podtronics) should filter it's output better, or whether Trispark should put in a better power input filter, we should consider that there is a space limitation on fitting larger components (capacitor, inductor) into the limited space in the points cover, but plenty of room to make the regulator/rectifier a little larger. A simple solution (if the problem is power line noise) might be to design a simple add-on filter to fit to the Podtronics output. If I get a chance, I'll hook up an o'scope to mine, just to see how noisy the output is, but it's a pretty low priority on my to-do list at the moment.

PS: I'm also using an electronic Smith tach, and it works fine with the Trispark without the in-line resistor, but I have one on the shelf, just in case.

Ken
 
I'm wondering if the motorcycles with single phase charging systems, equipped with the 200w Podtronics reg/rec are also equipped with a viable 2MC OE capacitor? I say viable because the OE capacitors don't live forever and if so equipped may just be passengers; if your battery is good you'd never miss the capacitor. I'm hoping that Dyno Dave will chime in, kick my ass, and deliver a more enlightened explanation.

All that said, please consider my post as food for stimulating possible alternative solutions, not a blame game. I made an inquiry about getting a properly speced capacitor and soon realized that I was poking into intellectual property; as I have the suspect reg/rec on my Triumph (and have the same system ready for the Norton I'm building), with an entirely new harness and components, and also have issues in the suspect rev range, I simply purchased the upgraded reg/rec and was amazed that I now have a bit of extra time to worry about some thing else.
 
If my memory is on song today I believe Al Osborn ( NOC UK electrics whiz) has always recommended retaining a working capacitor as a kindness to EI systems.
 
RoadScholar said:
I'm wondering if the motorcycles with single phase charging systems, equipped with the 200w Podtronics reg/rec are also equipped with a viable 2MC OE capacitor? I say viable because the OE capacitors don't live forever and if so equipped may just be passengers; if your battery is good you'd never miss the capacitor. I'm hoping that Dyno Dave will chime in, kick my ass, and deliver a more enlightened explanation.

All that said, please consider my post as food for stimulating possible alternative solutions, not a blame game. I made an inquiry about getting a properly speced capacitor and soon realized that I was poking into intellectual property; as I have the suspect reg/rec on my Triumph (and have the same system ready for the Norton I'm building), with an entirely new harness and components, and also have issues in the suspect rev range, I simply purchased the upgraded reg/rec and was amazed that I now have a bit of extra time to worry about some thing else.
Click to expand...


Interesting. I've had a trispark and 200w pod reg on since mid 2015, I also had a new 2mc cap on as well ( bought the bike in 2014 and changed out a lot of shite). The initial Trispark failed within a few months but since then everything has been working faultlessly. I did notice a while ago my 2mc cap sheared a wire off so not sure how long it was not wired into the loom, it has been replaced though and all is running as was, normal.
I have probably only done 4000 miles since 2015 so really not sure how fool proof my tri and pod are considering it has been found out they aren't compatible. I am doing a weekend ride soon which is only about a 500 mile journey to and thro but I will change out the podtronics to the updated version just in case. To be honest I'll prob get a spare trispark too.
 
I can’t recall what rectifier unit I used when I wired my bike in 2013/14.

Mine is currently back to a bare frame again, so changing it would be easy at this stage if appropriate.

Could someone please show pics of the ‘incompatible’ pod unit and the ‘updated version’?
 
Fast Eddie said:
Could someone please show pics of the ‘incompatible’ pod unit and the ‘updated version’?
Click to expand...

I don't think it's a matter of an 'updated version' just that the Podtronic version with the capacitor (that allows 'batteryless running') doesn't cause the problem.

From page 1:

"The misfiring is likely a problem with the Podtronics Single Phase Voltage Regulator POD-1P-Max (CS-4035, JRC 17-104A), 12v 200-watt rectifier – regulator. We have recently discovered that it is causing excessive noise interference."


"The Podtronics Single Phase with Capacitor (CS-4030) is an excellent alternative as it does not suffer from the noise interference."
 
OR...we could just use points/AAU/Lucas rectifier and totally forget all this silliness! ;)

Admittedly, a major downside to the OEM points system is that the quality of ignition points being made today pretty much sucks compared to those made back in the day. :(
 
L.A.B. said:
I don't think it's a matter of an 'updated version' just that the Podtronic version with the capacitor (that allows 'batteryless running') doesn't cause the problem.

From page 1:

"The misfiring is likely a problem with the Podtronics Single Phase Voltage Regulator POD-1P-Max (CS-4035, JRC 17-104A), 12v 200-watt rectifier – regulator. We have recently discovered that it is causing excessive noise interference."


"The Podtronics Single Phase with Capacitor (CS-4030) is an excellent alternative as it does not suffer from the noise interference."
Click to expand...

Thanks Lab, so the 3 phase version has no issue?
 

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