Titanium bolts and nuts replace———>

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Gojuu said:
Kinda seems odd to have panic about hub cracks and in the same context someone whacking Chinese bolts on something that are failing during fitting.
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Someone???
Whacking???
On Chinese bolts? Almost everything you touch during your day is Chinese, down to your bolts too.
 
NortonDominator2020 said:
Have you visited these two companies manufacturers? Did you saw these bolts being manufactured with your own eyes? Not only one bolt style but all these bolts and nuts coming out from the production line?
As anyone seen it?

If anyone been there and saw all of this I will really surprised and amazed.
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As I posted already, they do not have to actually make them all.

Chinese CAN make quality (just look at their military tech if in doubt).

So, provided a customer ensures strict control of material specification, and design, and has strong QC processes in place, there is no reason they could not get quality fasteners from a Chinese supplier, but ALL of the aforementioned must be in place.

But buying on line as a private person from unknown sources is a VERY different matter, you have none of the aforementioned processes, and no ‘leverage’. If / when allowed, the Chinese are masters at making things to the lowest cost and not caring one jot about quality, or even being fit for purpose.

A well known trick of Chinese suppliers is to provide the first small batch to perfect standards. Then, when trust is established, and a large order placed, that’s when the crap starts being shipped !

Even big firms in the medical industry have been bitten by certified high grade Chinese supplied stainless steel being of the wrong grade, all the certificates and official stamps and signatures ALL fake…!
 
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Fast Eddie said:
As I posted already, they do not have to actually make them all.

Chinese CAN make quality (just look at their military tech if in doubt).

So, provided a customer ensures strict control of material specification, and design, and has strong QC processes in place, there is no reason they could not get quality fasteners.

But buying on line as a private person from unknown sources is a VERY different matter. If allowed, the Chinese are masters at making things to the lowest cost and not caring one jot about quality, or even being fit for purpose.

A well known trick of Chinese suppliers is to provide the first small batch to perfect standards. Then, when trust is established, and a large order placed, that’s when the crap starts being shipped !
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Yes and you are right in every word.
I’m manufacturing in China and you get what you pay for. They have quality from zero to AAAAA TOP QUALITY, it’s up to you to choose the quality and how much you want to pay, if you pay top dollar you will get the BEST production line and products. I always pay top dollar and only manufacturing the best.

For example, the earlier Norton carbon parts was made in the UK and the later ones was made in China and they are way better than the ones that was made in the UK. All the carbon parts of the new Commando and the V4 are manufactured in China.

This store that I bought the bolts from on AliExpress is very well known and respectable with top reviews. I’m sure that if they write that the bolts are Ti grade 5 then it is grade 5. They know of course that these bolts are going to critical points on your bike and they will not risk people lives…

And that is why I can’t imagine these uk based companies are making bolts in the UK. It makes no sense what so ever.
The Chinese manufacturers have the machines that these UK companies can only dream about and at the friction of the cost including shipping taxes and everything to get them to the UK company “manufacturer”….
 
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NortonDominator2020 said:
Yes and you are right in every word.
I’m manufacturing in China and you get what you pay for. They have quality from zero to AAAAA TOP QUALITY, it’s up to you to choose the quality and how much you want to pay, you will pay top dollar you will get the BEST production line and products. I always pay top dollar and only manufacturing the best.

For example, the earlier Norton parts was made in the UK and the later ones was made in China and they are way better than the ones that was made in the UK. All the carbon parts of the new Commando and the V4 are manufactured in China
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Sounds like you know what you’re doing professionally.

But the failed bolt of yours shows a clear design and / or manufacturing flaw. Personally, that level of failure would lead me to question all other aspects regarding integrity of design, manufacturing quality and material specification. This would leave me lacking confidence in them. Especially given the cost of failure (to your personally safety) in the event of a failure.

But that’s just IMHO.
 
Fast Eddie said:
Sounds like you know what you’re doing professionally.

But the failed bolt of yours shows a clear design and / or manufacturing flaw. Personally, that level of failure would lead me to question all other aspects regarding integrity of design, manufacturing quality and material specification. This would leave me lacking confidence in them. Especially given the cost of failure (to your personally safety) in the event of a failure.

But that’s just IMHO.
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Yes this bolt design can not even hold a piece of paper in place.
My mistake that I wanted the front fender bolts with such a flat head and took them but in anyway they should not sell these brakebale bolts.
I checked the other bolts and they all look top quality with a lot of meat in the braking point so I think the failure is only on that stupid flat head design bolt.
I will talk with them tomorrow and ask them about the mining of that bolt and how they can sell something like that.
 
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NortonDominator2020 said:
Someone???
Whacking???
On Chinese bolts? Almost everything you touch during your day is Chinese, down to your bolts too.
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Maybe worry a little less about what I touch in a day, and stick to the fact your bolts are “failing”. What I do and where it comes from doesn’t effect your bolts that you are using on your bike.

I’m sure you can see the contradiction in the two threads without becoming desctracted from the issue you could be causing to yourself.
 
Gojuu said:
Maybe worry a little less about what I touch in a day, and stick to the fact your bolts are “failing”. What I do and where it comes from doesn’t effect your bolts that you are using on your bike.

I’m sure you can see the contradiction in the two threads without becoming desctracted from the issue you could be causing to yourself.
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Yes. One failure bolt out of more than 200.
 
From the Pro-bolt terms and conditions of purchase by a private buyer.

4. Where a person deals entirely as a consumer (“Consumer Buyer”), we are under a legal duty to supply Goods that are in conformity with this contract. As a consumer, you have legal rights known as statutory rights which include, but are not limited to, rights regarding Goods that are of satisfactory quality, are fit for purpose and are as described (these rights are implied into a contract by the Sale of Goods Act 1979) and rights regarding defective or faulty Goods (these rights implied into a contract by the Consumer Protection Act 1987 (“Implied Statutory Rights”). Advice about your Implied Statutory Rights is available from your local Citizens' Advice Bureau or Trading Standards office. These Implied Statutory Rights shall remain unaffected for Consumer Buyers by this contract.

The UK consumer rights cover product lability, so in the case of an accident they are open to claims for consequential losses which will be covered by their lability insurance.

Try that with an Aliexpress seller and see how far you get.
 
NortonDominator2020 said:
Have you visited these two companies manufacturers? Did you saw these bolts being manufactured with your own eyes? Not only one bolt style but all these bolts and nuts coming out from the production line?
As anyone seen it?

If anyone been there and saw all of this I will really surprised and amazed.
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Ive been to Racebolt, yes. They've been manufacturing bolts for over 20yrs.
 
Stu Bodycote said:
Ive been to Racebolt, yes. They've been manufacturing bolts for over 20yrs.
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That’s sounds interesting.
I will give them a call/email next week and ask if I can come for a factory visit to see their machines and production line working.
Let’s see their response.
Or maybe I will just ask them for actual pictures and if they will provide them I will admit that I’m stupid and no nothing about manufacturing.

And, if someone have an equipment to be able to check Ti grade and strength I’m willing to bet on £500 that Stu bolt and AliExpress bolt are 1,000% the same down to the weight and marks on them.
I will transfer the £500 in advanced and if the bolts are not 1,000% the same you can keep the £500 for the new Commando that we will buy for tests.
 
kommando said:
From the Pro-bolt terms and conditions of purchase by a private buyer.

4. Where a person deals entirely as a consumer (“Consumer Buyer”), we are under a legal duty to supply Goods that are in conformity with this contract. As a consumer, you have legal rights known as statutory rights which include, but are not limited to, rights regarding Goods that are of satisfactory quality, are fit for purpose and are as described (these rights are implied into a contract by the Sale of Goods Act 1979) and rights regarding defective or faulty Goods (these rights implied into a contract by the Consumer Protection Act 1987 (“Implied Statutory Rights”). Advice about your Implied Statutory Rights is available from your local Citizens' Advice Bureau or Trading Standards office. These Implied Statutory Rights shall remain unaffected for Consumer Buyers by this contract.

The UK consumer rights cover product lability, so in the case of an accident they are open to claims for consequential losses which will be covered by their lability insurance.

Try that with an Aliexpress seller and see how far you get.
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That’s bullish** as any beginning lawyer will pass it easily with “It’s the buyer responsibility to check the strength of the bolt vs the manufacturer specs and use only the manufacturer adviced and OEM parts”.
You are not allowed to replace to aftermarket parts, if an accident occurs it is on your responsibility only.
 
Fast Eddie said:
As I posted already, they do not have to actually make them all.

Chinese CAN make quality (just look at their military tech if in doubt).

So, provided a customer ensures strict control of material specification, and design, and has strong QC processes in place, there is no reason they could not get quality fasteners from a Chinese supplier, but ALL of the aforementioned must be in place.

But buying on line as a private person from unknown sources is a VERY different matter, you have none of the aforementioned processes, and no ‘leverage’. If / when allowed, the Chinese are masters at making things to the lowest cost and not caring one jot about quality, or even being fit for purpose.

A well known trick of Chinese suppliers is to provide the first small batch to perfect standards. Then, when trust is established, and a large order placed, that’s when the crap starts being shipped !

Even big firms in the medical industry have been bitten by certified high grade Chinese supplied stainless steel being of the wrong grade, all the certificates and official stamps and signatures ALL fake…!
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Blessedly, our FDA still mandates it be made HERE.
 
I know I'm not allowed to post on the MODERN Notrun forum, but performance DOWNGRADES have been around 50 years that I'm aware of. Sold under the guise of some type of "improvement".
The difference is the importance so many place on jewelry.
Aesthetics.
Rant of a lifelong motorcyclist, having been in the metal trade the whole way.

JMWO
 
Fast Eddie said:
Do you seriously think that’s a reasonable request, that some random person can expect a factory tour and be allowed to inspect their machinery and processes ?

I don’t !
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Do you seriously think that they have a factory?
How many bolts and nuts do you think that they are selling monthly? The smallest titanium bolts store on AliExpress is without a doubt selling x 1000 times more than them and they don’t have a factory as they are buying from the main Chinese manufacturer/suppliers like everyone else.

If they do make some bolts at their place so it is probably a work shop at the size of a big garage and I don’t see any reason why they will not be proud to let anyone come inside and see. We are not taking about Pfizer here…

And maybe I wrote it wrong, I’m not going to ask for a tour, just to have a pip inside like open the door or move the curtains for 5 seconds is more than enough no need to go inside to understand if anything is working inside…
 
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NortonDominator2020 said:
Do you seriously think that they have a factory?
How many bolts and nuts do you think that they are selling monthly? The smallest titanium bolts store on AliExpress is without a doubt selling x 1000 times than them and they don’t have a factory as they are buying from the main manufacturer.

If they do make some bolts at their place so it is probably a work shop at the size of a big garage and I don’t see any reason why they will not be proud to let anyone come inside and see. We are not taking about Pfizer here…

And maybe I wrote it wrong, I’m not going to ask for a tour, just to have a pip inside like open the door or move the curtains for 5 seconds is more than enough no need to go inside to understand if anything is working inside…
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ND22, What will you be looking for when you (virtually) look inside the factory?
Just curious.
 
Ok ND22, I’m now confused as to why you posted and asked for input in the first place?

You’ve argued with everyone who has offered an opinion different to yours, you’ve defended yourself, and your source, at every turn, and you’ve accused some posters of lying !

Let me remind you what you asked:

“So what do you think about it?”

One of the big ‘problems’ with the internet is, when you ask for peoples thoughts, you will invariably receive them…
 
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NortonDominator2020 said:
Do you seriously think that they have a factory?
How many bolts and nuts do you think that they are selling monthly? The smallest titanium bolts store on AliExpress is without a doubt selling x 1000 times more than them and they don’t have a factory as they are buying from the main Chinese manufacturer/suppliers like everyone else.

If they do make some bolts at their place so it is probably a work shop at the size of a big garage and I don’t see any reason why they will not be proud to let anyone come inside and see. We are not taking about Pfizer here…

And maybe I wrote it wrong, I’m not going to ask for a tour, just to have a pip inside like open the door or move the curtains for 5 seconds is more than enough no need to go inside to understand if anything is working inside…
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I really need to learn and keep my mouth shut and ignore certain things. But I can’t help myself when I see or hear something stupid.

Pro bolt, like other world known manufacturers such as ARP, Goodyear, Michelin, Coke, Dewalt, Snap on, etc are not going to give some pee on a factory visit pass or even a sneak peek inside.

Even this so called TVS Norton company turned away visitors because they weren’t chosen by their raffle.

Pro bolt can not be compared to shit bough from some fly by night online thrift store selling China made junk.

You bought some shit and it’s clearly junk. For all you know it’s not even titanium. It could be aluminum. Or perhaps you over tightened the fastener.

Stop acting like you know everything all the time. Anytime you buy something you always claim it’s the best and greatest. Buying shit from Aliexpress is just that….junk.

Pro bolt makes their products in-house. Not in China. I find it humorous that you think otherwise then claim to know where they source their products and then you assume to know their sales numbers.

I’m just calling bullshit where I see it.
I’m still waiting for you to over shadow me and for that punch in my face you said you’d deliver.

Sincerely:
Mr Rant. Aka Negatron.
 
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