The V4 situation

Time for someone to go "way back" and find our initial posts / opinions of these bikes when first announced, and see who had the best crystal balls...
 
Fast Eddie said:
I wouldn’t let that stop you, I’m the same 6ft and 95kg, and although I’ve never ridden one, I have sat on them and the ergonomics felt fine to me.

It certainly felt much more humane than the 961 cafe racer. So it’d practically be a Gold Wing for you….!
Click to expand...
A pipe dream for me FE. Never to be seen in the Land of Oz - so, moot on this beaut!:(
 
I'll predict they will never become collectors items at great prices, more like collectors items at low prices. The young of today who maybe affluent in 20 years time will not even know what a Norton is, they will be into Royal Enfields, Triumphs, KTM's and whole range of Jap bikes.
 
Or not into bikes at all.
Last sunday I saw a T120 1970 and a Commando both in top shape but they were the only old bikes seen on the road in Devon for 3 hours.
Things aren't what they were.
 
Madnorton said:
I'll predict they will never become collectors items at great prices, more like collectors items at low prices. The young of today who maybe affluent in 20 years time will not even know what a Norton is, they will be into Royal Enfields, Triumphs, KTM's and whole range of Jap bikes.
Click to expand...
Part of the atteaction to vintage bikes, is, back in the day, (it seemed like) EVERYBODY had a bike, and the bikes were interwoven in our social life.
The bikes we had.
The bikes we wanted.
The bikes we couldn't afford.
Now, many are trying to revisit the glory days of youth.😎🏍️🤩

Decades from now, they'll be restoring & collecting iPhones & Androids. 😢

A friend bought a new Dodge Challenger SRT Hemi.👊🏻💪🏻

He wanted to keep the miles low. 😞

I told him to pound the snot out of it, buy new tires every month, and enjoy it. It WILL NOT be a collectors item. That ship sailed.
 
Onder said:
Or not into bikes at all.
Last sunday I saw a T120 1970 and a Commando both in top shape but they were the only old bikes seen on the road in Devon for 3 hours.
Things aren't what they were.
Click to expand...
Same, but I see plenty of modern Triumph "Modern Classics" on the road here.

The "look" is close enough to vintage Triumphs, and they are affordable for even younger riders. The vintage Nortons and Triumphs I build all cost more than the modern version and people today don't want to "wrench" on them - they want to ride them.

I suspect that the new Triumph 400 will sell very well. Insurance for over 500 cc is traditionally much more expensive than under, especially for under 25-year-old riders. And, in suburban areas a faster bike is wasted. IMHO, Triumph was very wise to add both 400cc models to their "Modern Classics" line.
 
Madnorton said:
I'll predict they will never become collectors items at great prices, more like collectors items at low prices. The young of today who maybe affluent in 20 years time will not even know what a Norton is, they will be into Royal Enfields, Triumphs, KTM's and whole range of Jap bikes.
Click to expand...
A glowing endorsement of modern Norton and the likelihood of their future success! Warms the cockles of your heart🤣!!
 
Grandad said:
The purchase of a modern Norton for me would mean having sufficient spare cash that I’d be easily able to shrug my shoulders at any prospective lack of spares and customer service that may or may not arise, to such a pitch that if it became a boat anchor or a piece of artwork in my living room I couldn’t care less.
Click to expand...
I have owned a Norton F1 Sport for over thirty years with no dealer back up whatsoever..I always manage to find a way regarding spares. Still using it now and with Andover Norton supplying parts should be using it for a bit longer. Problem is I don’t need another awkward bike from TVS with problematic spares back up.
 
concours said:
Part of the atteaction to vintage bikes, is, back in the day, (it seemed like) EVERYBODY had a bike, and the bikes were interwoven in our social life.
The bikes we had.
The bikes we wanted.
The bikes we couldn't afford.
Now, many are trying to revisit the glory days of youth.😎🏍️🤩

Decades from now, they'll be restoring & collecting iPhones & Androids. 😢

A friend bought a new Dodge Challenger SRT Hemi.👊🏻💪🏻

He wanted to keep the miles low. 😞

I told him to pound the snot out of it, buy new tires every month, and enjoy it. It WILL NOT be a collectors item. That ship sailed.
Click to expand...
Sure has, and we see the same with F1 prices here, they now fetch about the same or less than a classic.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
A glowing endorsement of modern Norton and the likelihood of their future success! Warms the cockles of your heart🤣!!
Click to expand...
The V4 was not quite their creation so has no real association to any success in the future they may have, it has no racing pedigree or any other achievement other than being average and expensive. Ask those in the Norton circles you move in, both young and old, in 20 years time will they buy a V4 either a Garner or TVS model, I suspect the answer will be the same as I get here, a resounding no.
 
Madnorton said:
The V4 was not quite their creation so has no real association to any success in the future they may have, it has no racing pedigree or any other achievement other than being average and expensive. Ask those in the Norton circles you move in, both young and old, in 20 years time will they buy a V4 either a Garner or TVS model, I suspect the answer will be the same as I get here, a resounding no.
Click to expand...
Harsh !

But difficult to counter…
 
Madnorton said:
I'll predict they will never become collectors items at great prices, more like collectors items at low prices. The young of today who maybe affluent in 20 years time will not even know what a Norton is, they will be into Royal Enfields, Triumphs, KTM's and whole range of Jap bikes.
Click to expand...
Madnorton said:
The V4 was not quite their creation so has no real association to any success in the future they may have, it has no racing pedigree or any other achievement other than being average and expensive. Ask those in the Norton circles you move in, both young and old, in 20 years time will they buy a V4 either a Garner or TVS model, I suspect the answer will be the same as I get here, a resounding no.
Click to expand...
Would it be true to say that you (and the small cohort from the ‘Vintage’ Commando site) believe that anything with a descriptor of ‘Modern’ placed in association with ‘Norton’ is just wrong, by definition? It’s just a sneaky vibe I’m picking up……….🤣!

Just ‘pulling yer leg’ mate but I do wonder that if you’d owned one, or maybe even ridden one, that might influence your cohorts content somewhat;)👍.
 
Last edited:
Fast Eddie said:
Well that would be handy wouldn’t it ?!

What’s been on my mind recently is trying to work out what might happen with the SVs future residuals.

Like most ‘proper’ bikers, I have little sympathy for ‘investor’ buyers who lose a bit.

But on the other hand, you’d have to be much richer than I’ll ever be to be able to drop £40k+ on a bike with no regards to its likely future value !

I think Stu is right about the SS. Generally the first generation of anything is the collectible one. And with the SS the story, race history, controversy etc will help that become collectible (in time). As will the ‘this survivor escaped the crusher’ accolade !

However, the SV doesn’t have any of that. It’s ‘just’ a rare nice bike.

As such it is difficult to envisage who might be the possible collectors of these in future. Clearly it IS a nice bike so will never be worth nothing, and it is highly likely to be one of the last generation of high performance ICE motorcycles, but personally I don’t really see it being worth any more than its contemporary’s in years to come.

None of this is a reason not to buy one, you just gotta be open eyed and happy to take the likely financial hit.
Click to expand...
Difficult to tell whether the SV will hold value in the longer term (or ever become an investment). I think much depends on whether Norton reach a level of success and endure, whether they build many more SV’s (the volume in circulation will have affect obviously), or jettison it for further superbikes while ICE are still an option.

The SV is the first generation from Norton Birmingham and will likely be remembered as the ‘re-engineered version’ - the reliability of which may mean it can continue to be ridden long into the future. I think the Donny original is unlikely to ever lose its ‘comes with critical faults’ tag! Even collectors want their bikes to be runners i guess.

I can only speak for myself but it depends on what type of bike consumers we are. I don’t generally sell bikes, unless I’m moving country of residence (which I’ve done a lot). Others of course change bikes when the first tank of fuel is spent. For me the SV would be an absolute keeper, so no matter its future value.

‘Average’ as stated above does not describe the V4SV. It is a truly beautiful machine and the hand crafted nature (frame, swingarm etc), quality materials, componentry and detail go a long way to explaining the price tag. Yep you can get a more capable Ducati but you’re moving into mass produced ubiquitous territory.

There’s a huge leap to the new Brough Superior in price but I’d be OK parking my Norton V4SV next to one in front of the pub. Might park my Ducati V4SP2-SLS-P1……..around the back though!😄
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Difficult to tell whether the SV will hold value in the longer term (or ever become an investment). I think much depends on whether Norton reach a level of success and endure, whether they build many more SV’s (the volume in circulation will have affect obviously), or jettison it for further superbikes while ICE are still an option.

The SV is the first generation from Norton Birmingham and will likely be remembered as the ‘re-engineered version’ - the reliability of which may mean it can continue to be ridden long into the future. I think the Donny original is unlikely to ever lose its ‘comes with critical faults’ tag! Even collectors want their bikes to be runners i guess.

I can only speak for myself but it depends on what type of bike consumers we are. I don’t generally sell bikes, unless I’m moving country of residence (which I’ve done a lot). Others of course change bikes when the first tank of fuel is spent. For me the SV would be an absolute keeper, so no matter its future value.

‘Average’ as stated above does not describe the V4SV. It is a truly beautiful machine and the hand crafted nature (frame, swingarm etc), quality materials, componentry and detail go a long way to explaining the price tag. Yep you can get a more capable Ducati but you’re moving into mass produced ubiquitous territory.

There’s a huge leap to the new Brough Superior in price but I’d be OK parking my Norton V4SV next to one in front of the pub. Might park my Ducati V4SP2-SLS-P1……..around the back though!😄
Click to expand...
How did you manage to reply to something I’d already deleted ?!

My diatribe was just that. A meandering waffle of my own thought process. No value for public consumption.
 
Stephen_Spencer said:
Would it be true to say that you (and the small cohort from the ‘Vintage’ Commando site) believe that anything with a descriptor of ‘Modern’ placed in association with ‘Norton’ is just wrong, by definition? It’s just a sneaky vibe I’m picking up……….🤣!

Just ‘pulling yer leg’ mate but I do wonder that if you’d owned one, or maybe even ridden one, that might influence your cohorts content somewhat;)👍.
Click to expand...
Had they made the Atlas and Ranger model I would have bought one as it would be great for winter commuting, still to this day not sure why they didn't when they were clearly going to be the popular bike. Working in the classic bike trade full time and dealing with customers from all walks of life from around the globe owning a wide array of bikes old and new, I'd say I have a pretty good idea what will be a classic and what will not, including bikes that are now half the price they were 5 years ago and some that are double in certain market places.
There are bikes out there that look as good as the V4, better spec and a lot less to buy, potential owners no matter how wealthy do their homework.
 
Last edited:
Fast Eddie said:
Harsh !

But difficult to counter…
Click to expand...
FE, as you know and have seen, some bikes will have their day and some don't get a sniff at being collectable. We recently had one of the 3 NRS built by Richard Negus for sale and despite being sensible money it took a long time to sell. Proof that small numbers and being a better bike than the F1 or F1 Sport did not make it popular.
 
Madnorton said:
Had they made the Atlas and Ranger model I would have bought one as it would be great for winter commuting, still to this day not sure why they didn't when they were clearly going to be the popular bike. Working in the classic bike trade full time and dealing with customers from all walks of life from around the globe owning a wide array of bikes old and new, I'd say I have a pretty good idea what will be a classic and what will not, including bikes that are now half the price they were 5 years ago and some that are double in certain market places.
There are bikes out there that look as good as the V4, better spec and a lot less to buy, potential owners no matter how wealthy do their homework.
Click to expand...
I know talk is cheap, but I know SO many people who reckon they’d have bought one of the Atlas’s.

I was at the NEC when they were launched and I’ve not seen a public reaction to a new bike like they had in a very long time.

I had a SL on order and I’m fairly certain I’d have ended up with a Scrambler variant as well.

Whatever the issues were, they were solvable. Even if they had to change the engine or similar they could have done so and still ridden the wave of public interest.

The decision to drop that range, and kill ALL of that public interest, was a monumental f*ck up.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

peebee
V4 + 961
2
Replies
22
Views
544
Voodooo
V
Clive
Factory visit April 1st 2022
2
Replies
28
Views
2,592
Clive
Clive
scunjee
  • Locked
A brief history of crud, sweat and beers
Replies
4
Views
1,313
Ricochetrider
Ricochetrider
I
  • Locked
The restoration gremlins
Replies
13
Views
859
chasbmw
C
G
norton news (long)
2 3
Replies
43
Views
5,986
Matt Spencer
M
Back
Top