Stuck Spindle

kerinorton · May 27, 2014

if you can cut the axel and spacer with a hacksaw, and then remove the speedo drive, you may then be able to use a monkey wrench to wind the axel away front the drive side. You may then be able to get the wheel out, and take it to a machine shop in order for them to set the wheel up in a press, and press the buggered axel out of the wheel. Its one of these occasions where I suggest [ DONT DO THIS AT HOME. ]
Hobots suggestion is probably quicker but you will then have to spend time filing the dags off the axel to get the speedo off. You will have to have enough axel hanging out to get the monkey wrench to grip the axel.
Hope your successful. sounds like a shit of a job.

grandpaul · May 27, 2014

hobot said:

Ah, the old "Blue tipped wrench", or as some refer to them "smoke wrench".

Collateral damage far more likely, though...

gjr · May 27, 2014

L.A.B. said:
mikegray660 said:

you'd be better off with the Kroil, PB-Blaster

Click to expand...

Neither of those products seem to be available in the UK.

A mixture of 1/2 acetone and 1/2 automatic transmission fluid ( your choice of flavors, but the cheap stuff is fine) works as well as either PB Blaster or Kroil.

Greg

Hobot · May 27, 2014

Well the less care free souls could still melt the drive pot metal shell away then blow off gear ring before beg barrow or stealing a sawsall's thru it. Duh if axle can't be turned by its head don't expect for even a pipe wrench on hardened shaft either. I don't wish this state of stuck on anyone but its healing to know I can't take it so personally anymore after all these years till finally sense another's blank british Iron staring state of uncomprehending disbelief limbo. I never had an axle hang up but boy howdy i hope ya don't run into what I did moving the axle spacer to access bearing edge. Permanent damage to wrenching ego, skin, bones and memory. The worse case scenario I can picture is the drum snout fractured into the dumb axle tipping on trapping the real axle in dummy while skewing a bow in axle on races to wear some lip edges on more than one spot so a shop press just blows out the hub to clear your head and heart, shrugging it off for video record book and start from $cratch.

Rich_j · May 31, 2014

gripper said:
Just before you go ape with it, just confirm that the Left hand stub axle is not turning and that the Right hand spindle IS unscrewing? In other words you're not just turning the whole lot round having undone the LH nut. The two flats on the stub axle will not stop Arnold Shwartzenegger winding the whole lot round with a long bar.
That's where my money is. Remember this guy has not seen this bike for sometime and probably not seen the workshop manual either.

The stub axle isn't turning, the problem is definitely wheel bearings or spacer.
Checking the manual was Step 1 before I even noticed the swingarm was spreading.

Air impact won't work, the shaft turns too easily.

Off to the TT so parking this one till I get back.
I'll try clamping the swingarm and slide hammer options others have mentioned.

If that fails the hacksaw is coming out but will need to think it through carefully.

Rich

Hobot · May 31, 2014

Maybe better to slice off ends of swing arm slot to free whole assembly to deal with then put ends back on swing arm. I suspect that even with axle sliced through the axle will remain trapped with attached dumb axle in DS swing arm with much less axle left to carry on the fight with. Might have to have axles drilled out to save hub.

Rich_j · May 31, 2014

hobot said:
Maybe better to slice off ends of swing arm slot to free whole assembly to deal with then put ends back on swing arm. I suspect that even with axle sliced through the axle will remain trapped with attached dumb axle in DS swing arm with much less axle left to carry on the fight with. Might have to have axles drilled out to save hub.

The "think carefully" comment was aimed at this little problem, I think it can be done without hacking the swingarm but not 100% sure.
Lots of fun ahead.

Rich

Hobot · May 31, 2014

Ok hope I'm wrong in my prediction of lost cause thinking attempting simple minded solutions of others not ever running into your level hang up. Can't screw long axle out of swing arm so what would ya gain with slicing through RH of long axle if dumb stub axle is still holding wheel in swing arm because long axle still holding ya up? With long axle end removed you may still find long axle remains in stub axle so will not allow wheel to quick release off drum as designed.

Rich_j · May 31, 2014

hobot said:
Ok hope I'm wrong in my prediction of lost cause thinking attempting simple minded solutions of others not ever running into your level hang up. Can't screw long axle out of swing arm so what would ya gain with slicing through RH of long axle if dumb stub axle is still holding wheel in swing arm because long axle still holding ya up? With long axle end removed you may still find long axle remains in stub axle so will not allow wheel to quick release off drum as designed.

So we take drum and wheel out at the same time, not usual but possible? Guess I'll find out.

Hobot · May 31, 2014

The quick release feature leaves the drum/sprocket hung loosely on swing arm after long axle extracted and wheel can move 1/2" away from drum paddles to clear. The sad part everyone seems to miss is ya can't get drum off until the stud axle is loosened completely free and then not until wheel-hub out the way which can't be removed till the long axle extracted fully free in hand. I say slice out axle slots is safest sensible easy to recover way to get a move on. If the drum hub side bearing retainer clip popped out it could settle on long axle threads to allow long axle turning but not sliding out. The hub internal bearing race clamp load spacer has its own pretty robust spacers at either end to prevent it falling off center onto axle to point its a real hassle to move spacer aside even enough to expose some inner race to get a lip a sharp drift edge can bear on to knock bearing out. Once free of swing arm the drum may fall right off problem solved.

mschmitz57 · Jun 2, 2014

Don't cut / destroy anything yet.
Get a pipe clamp to support the swing arm tightly to prevent it from spreading.
Then back the axle out as far as you can without bending anything. This combined with the clamp holding the swing arm
should pull the axle free of the stuck bearing. Some careful raps on the end of the axle with a dead-blow or plastic mallet
while the stuck bearing is under tension should help to drive it out. Hopefully you've gotten some penetrating oil into the corrosion.

Mark

gripper · Jun 2, 2014

Hi Rich, didn't mean to be rude about checking the manual but some don't. You'll need a DIY solution after a week at the TT because you'll be skint :lol:

Rich_j · Jun 9, 2014

Well the spindle is out.

No swingarms were harmed in this operation

Damage is 1 x spindle, 1 x spacer and 2x adjusters.

I cut the adjusters off during an attempt at clamping the swingarm but it didn't work.

In the end I cut through the right hand spacer and spindle, pulled off the end of the spindle, slid off the remains of the spacer and the speedo drive, cut the spindle back a bit further, released the brake side nut and pulled brake and wheel out together.

The spindle knocked out fairly easily which makes me think the slide hammer suggestion would also have worked and saved the right hand spacer but I'd already spent too much time on it and the angle grinder was calling to me.

Hopefully the bearing spacer will be OK so planning to replace the bits I've cut and put a in new set of bearings.

Thanks for all the suggestions.

Rich

Torontonian · Jun 10, 2014

Destruction is fun.

Hobot · Jun 10, 2014

I'm also relieved to know it took outside reasonable mechanics to use destructive caution rather than risk a wham bam puller damage. Pray tell what was the cutting done with? Did ya find evidence of what parts were causing the hang up?

Nater_Potater · Jun 10, 2014

Rich_j said:
Well the spindle is out.

Hopefully the bearing spacer will be OK so planning to replace the bits I've cut and put a in new set of bearings.

Rich

While you're replacing the bearings, you can determine the spacer's condition. I imagine it's alright, as it doesn't sound like too much wailing force was applied to the spindle. As long as the old bearings come off the spindle without too much effort, and the slip-n-slide action of the new spindle through the bushing is okay, you should be fine. If you have a piece of plate glass or access to a granite block, install the bearings on the spacer and check for runout. You could also get a good idea by miking across the assembled bearings while on the spacer. If the value goes up and down as you go around the bearings, one or both ends would be bent. But, I'd bet they're not.

Nathan

pete.v · Jun 10, 2014

Rich_j said:
Hopefully the bearing spacer will be OK so planning to replace the bits I've cut and put a in new set of bearings.
Rich

It should clean up fine and as long as the ends fit snug into the bearing inners and the axel is a nice slip fit inside, you should be able to reuse it.

Stuck Spindle

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